#143: Did We Forget How Sales Actually Works? With Trish Bertuzzi
Speaker 1: So we're back with another episode of Seeking Wisdom and we lucky to have Trish Bertuzzi on here.
Trish: I'll clap for myself.
Speaker 1: You should. And so probably everyone who's listening knows Trish, legend. Wrote a book called The Sales Development Playbook.
Speaker 1: And I read that book. Back when I was at HubSpot we read that book and it was circulated around. And we learned about the concept, the emergence of the sales development rep.
Speaker 1: You kind of crystallize that. And so we're lucky to have her. Even though we're in the same city, we're in the same state, Massachusetts, we've never had you on the podcast before, which is our bad. And so we're rectifying that and we're psyched to have you onboard today. Welcome, Trish.
Trish: Thank you. Psyched to finally be here. And it kind of disturbs me that you said you had a copy of my book that you passed around at Hubspot. Like, how am I supposed to make any money if you're buying one copy and pass it around?
Wade: Are you done yet? Can I read it yet?
Trish: Crazy, I'm trying to fund my retirement here.
Speaker 1: Totally, we've got to sell some books. Get a copy of Sales Development Playbook on Amazon.
Wade: No, no, that's not true. Because if you did it to make money, the book is not the money, or maybe it is, maybe it is. DC is trying to push me to get our new book New York Times best seller week one, 15, 000 copies in one week.
Trish: Well if you buy 15, 000 crosstalk.
Wade: No, it doesn't count. I looked into it.
Trish: Most people get it, well that's how it counts on Amazon, just so you know.
Wade: Okay. So there's a lot we should talk about with Trish, but I think, how do you talk about, and how do you solve what has changed since you wrote the book? Because I feel like you wrote the book two years ago, and even since then overnight, the landscape has changed from how people react to sales and marketing to what's actually changed inside of companies. What's changed since you wrote the book?
Trish: So a couple of things have changed pretty significantly. I think one of the big things that I talk about a lot recently is the fact that it's even harder to get buyers to engage with us, harder than ever before. The wall is bigger and you have to be better to get there.
Wade: I wrote this quote down, because I was like, this is how I know this is going to be fun because you talk like we talk. You said," Buyers have built this massive wall between them. And the reason why is because we have bored the ever living crap out of them with banal messaging content that is six ways to do this or that and emails that have alligators and file boxes that fell on top of inaudible"
Trish: Yeah. I pull punches.
Speaker 1: That's filtered.
Trish: That's filtered. So it's true though.
Wade: So true.
Trish: I mean you know, everybody looks at your inbox or whatever and you're like," Here we go." So what does that do for sales development? It makes their job even that much harder. And they had the hardest job in the whole sales process to begin with. One of the things that I think is going to help people this year is to think about engagement in a little bit of a different way. So we did some research with Modern Sales Pros and Sales Hacker, and it's the Ultimate Sales Engagement Guide in its research on how some very specific buyer types want to be approached and consume content. Fascinating research. So what it said to us is, let's take sales versus marketing. Sales likes video. Sales likes the phone. Marketing likes email. Marketing likes white papers. So if you're selling to both of those constituencies, most people go out and they build this sequence or cadence that says," We're going to touch you this many times using this whatever." And it's vanilla across all buyer personas. So the new thing now is to get so intimately knowledgeable about your buyer personas that you know what channels to communicate with them in and you know what channels to deliver content. That's a big trend.
Speaker 1: Why is it taking so long? Doesn't it seem obvious because if this was like in real life, you would know that you would have to treat someone who has a different role differently.
Trish: I think it's taken so long because we just get to the point where we finally have standardized cadences and sequences.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Trish: And then we had phone, we had email, then we had social. Now we have conversational marketing. So there's a lot going on and it's just the next step in our evolution.
Speaker 1: How did you become known for being the queen of sales development?
Trish: It's a self- proclaimed title.
Wade: She's a marketer. She's a good marketer, to be honest.
Trish: I don't know. I guess I just talk about it.
Speaker 1: You are known that way.
Trish: I don't know about being the queen.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
Wade: I think people think Trish equals sales development or inside sales. Those two goes hand in hand.
Trish: 21 years in, 21 years.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the secret.
Trish: I always say to people," Yeah, I'm an overnight success 30 years in the making."
Wade: Love that.
Speaker 1: Dave, you have what, 28 more years to go?
Wade: 28? I'll be like, I can't even do the math on that. Okay.
Trish: Don't make me feel bad.
Wade: This is good. I think everything's going in the other direction, which is we went from like the last five, 10 years was about like," What can I automate? What can I make more efficient?" I think we're seeing in the marketing world and in the sales world, we're seeing this swing way back the other way which is like one- to- one real information, real knowledge, real research, great content from a marketing perspective, the whole make a PDF out of some blog posts and then call it an ebook doesn't work anymore. The whole spray and pray model doesn't work anymore where you send endless emails. Did you get my email? The trick with the threaded response and all the gimmicks. I think that was the last decade and we're moving into this new decade, which is interesting to hear you say that it is harder than ever today. But then we have companies with big goals, managers who have incentives to push the team hard. How are reps going to balance this next decade or five to 10 years? Do you think that it's much harder to sell than it was 10 years ago?
Wade: No. It's easier.
Trish: You said sell.
Wade: To sell.
Trish: Engage is a whole different part of the sales process, right? So I think getting to engagement is the hardest part of the sales process. Now I think selling, once you get the right guy or girl and you have the right conversation about the right problem, no, I think sales 101, good old fashioned sales skills, I don't think that's changed. I think we forgot how to be good.
Trish: I think we let our good muscles atrophy, but I don't think it's really changed. I think what's changed the most is the front end and the back end. Because I think keeping those customers once we sell them, that's the new frontier. Because customers are fickle, there's no downsize to switching other than maybe a little motivation.
Wade: There's just too much risk. You can't do the bait and switch anymore. crosstalk.
Speaker 1: You're not just selling them one thing anymore. You're selling a relationship now. You're selling sass, you're selling reoccurring, you're selling ongoing, you're selling over a life cycle versus selling one thing once and get out.
Trish: Yes, which sounds like it's easier, but it's also easier for them to break up with you.
Speaker 1: Totally, totally, it's way harder, I think. And one observation that I had that's interesting about you, Trish, is that you've always, from my viewpoint, always developed personal relationships, always about giving value, at Bridge Group have always done deep research and that's what you put out there. But the sales market has gone and marketing, I should say even the marketing market more, has gone so much more overboard on what Dave was saying, which is like light, not personal, no value. And now I think now it's time to pay for that.
Trish: There was a company that created part of this problem who shall remain nameless. For a while, we all got caught up on having people come to us.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Trish: Content is king and all. And you know what? It worked for a while.
Speaker 1: It did, very well.
Trish: And then it stopped. So now it's time for the next iteration of what that looks like.
Speaker 1: Like all things in marketing, all of these techniques, they stop after a while.
Wade: Can you unpack that a little bit? I want to get into the tactics of what is the next wave of this? Talk to the whatever, there's 70 sales reps at Drift and thousands of people are going to watch this. How do you actually go and do that? Because I think the narrative of sales is harder, you have to be personal, engagement is important, I think everybody agrees with that. But I haven't seen a lot of people get into the how. So the companies you work with, the people that you advise, what is a good example of how somebody goes and actually does this?
Trish: So here's the interesting thing, there's no one way.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Trish: So one of the things that I say to people all the time is," Look, if I knew the right answer for every company out there, obviously I would be on my yacht and I'm not." I'm not on the yacht.
Wade: Not on the yacht.
Speaker 1: Not on the yacht.
Trish: So I think here's the thing you need to figure out. You have to figure out your strategy we get so caught up in execution, we forget to constantly go back and reevaluate our strategy, and I think that's a critical success factor. Like where are you in the technology adoption life cycle? Are you selling to innovators and early adopters? Are you selling into the commodity space? Are you selling to the inaudible space? Geoffrey Moore's book is as valid today as it ever was.
Speaker 1: Oh, totally.
Trish: So where are you at?
Speaker 1: I re-read it.
Trish: What's your brand and name recognition? What level of the organization do you sell into? What's your average deal size? If you're selling to someone in dev ops, your strategy is going to be totally different than if you're selling to the C- suite. So everything flows from the strategy. And what I see companies do is develop a strategy, go into execution mode and never look in the rear view mirror to make sure that strategy's right. Strategy needs to iterate as much as your message and your method.
Speaker 1: Yes. What I love about what you're saying, it's all kind of the same in some ways. All of the principles are basic. We shouldn't be confused. People, relationships, how to sell, how to provide value, how to analyze, that stuff's basic. But we confuse ourselves all the time because we're chasing tactics and tricks and this and that. And then we're like," Why isn't it working?" Because we skipped the basics.
Speaker 1: We skip the basics every single time. And it's like, we didn't deliver any value. We didn't focus on the customer. We didn't look at what we were doing and understand the strategy behind it. We didn't do any of these things. And it's actually basic stuff, but nobody wants the basic answer because it's hard and it takes time. They want the easy answer.
Trish: Well, the other thing is we're measured on activity.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Trish: We're so busy, so busy. So I think if you're measured on impact more than activity, I mean, at the executive leadership level most especially, it makes a profound difference in your go to market strategy.
Wade: So David has, since the beginning of Drift, he's told me," I'm a marketer."
Trish: That's not your fault.
Speaker 1: You were born that way.
Wade: I sold a couple of two or three deals every crosstalk, two three deals. So he was like, " Look, I'm going to give you advice and it's not going to fit with what everybody else tells you, but I actually don't want you to read," he goes, " don't read any marketing or sales best practices, especially in B2B, especially in SAS. Go back and study the timeless lessons. Go back and read sales books and marketing books from the 1920s, thirties, forties, even early two thousands, Chet Holmes, Sales Machine, so many great books like that." And that to me, that unlocked the lesson which is over the last hundred years, 200 years, there's only one thing that hasn't changed in a sales, people. People are always going to be the same. What's the emotion? What's the benefit? What's the selfish need? What's the desire they have? That stuff has never changed. But I think we've just gone so far in the other direction of what's the technology? What's the little hack? That all your advice, the thing you guys were just talking about is really about what is the person that you're trying to sell to, what do they want? What do they desire and how can you reach them? That stuff has never changed. We're just now blinded by," Oh, video's a thing now? I'm just going to blast out a hundred videos and I'm like,'Look, I'm doing good sales today.'" It doesn't work like that.
Trish: A hundred percent. What was your favorite book of all the oldies that you read?
Wade: Yes. You know True Professional? True Professional asks questions back.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Wade: A true professional ask questions. Most people come on the podcast and they're like," Yes. Next question please." My favorite book, there's a 1924 Claude Hopkins Scientific Advertising. It has everything you need to know. It could be a book from 20 years in the future and it's all the same.
Trish: Oh my God.
Wade: It's from 1924.
Speaker 1: Send me a copy.
Wade: I'll send you a copy. That was a book that I read that unlocked everything for me because it was like, wait a second, this is from over a hundred years ago. This is the same advice. And then you read a book like Ogilvy On Advertising from 1965, same. Then Chet Holmes, 2007, Ultimate Sales Machine, same. He's talking about ABM then, which was just called the Dream 100 narrowed down your universe and find the a hundred people that you're going to sell to and want to be good customers. And so I think that those are the three that we talk about a lot.
Speaker 1: That was important to show the progression because he went back and then now he can see like the pattern of like," It's always the same," because it's basic human needs. They're always the same. We can package them, call them something differently. We can put some technology on it. We can do whatever, but it's basically the same. And that's 80% or more, let's say 90% of the thing to focus on and developing. And then this other stuff that changes all the time, that's the easy, light stuff.
Wade: We hang out with our sales team a lot. We talk," Hey, what are you reading? What are you learning?" And they'll ask," Hey, what's a good sales podcast I should listen to?" I'm like," Don't go listen to sales podcasts, go read Cialdini's Influence, Six Principles of Influence. Go read that. If you read that book about social psychology and behavior, you're going to run laps around everybody else in your field." But I think people don't want that. They don't want the book from 1984.
Trish: Maybe they can get it on Audible. Close enough to a podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, close enough to a podcast, that's true.
Wade: So how do you think about technology then? If it is just about people, how do you go out and help advise companies about what stuff they should put in to play?
Trish: First of all, I love tech. That's a problem. It's a big problem in my budget.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Trish: It is a big budgetary issue for me. But here's how we seem to think about it. Once again, everything flows down from the strategy. So if I go to someone and I'll say," What are you doing for this particular problem?" They say," Oh, I bought..." I'm like," Okay, but what's your strategy?" They go," I bought."
Speaker 1: Right, it's all done, now.
Trish: Yep. So that's my silver bullet and that's going to fix it. So what we say to people is you need a couple of basic strategies to start. You need a fabulous CRM, that's table stakes. And then you need a couple other building blocks depending on what you're trying to accomplish. But what you have to do is figure out what supports the strategy. Figure out what you need, buy it, implement it, iterate on it, get successful. Then think about the next thing. SDRs have, they're using like 5. 2 tools a day or something crazy. Well, how do you do that effectively? Like how do you really, how do they all tie together? And that's why they need two screens now, two monitors because they're... And then they're so busy, that they're not having conversations with their buyers because they're so busy looking at stuff that they're not engaged on mono y mono.
Speaker 1: It's easier to look at stuff than actually...
Trish: Talk to someone.
Speaker 1: I got to talk to someone.
Trish: But if you think about it though, look at the average age of a sales development rep, they don't have face- to- face conversations. I could be sitting next to someone and they'll text me or Snapchat or whatever the case. So I mean, there's that problem which we need to surmount. Can I go on a rant for just one minute?
Speaker 1: Please. This is a rant zone.
Trish: Okay. So here's what makes me crazy about people who are disappointed in their sales development reps. They don't train them. And I don't mean training on what to say, when to say it...
Speaker 1: The standards.
Trish: How about presentation skills?
Speaker 1: Yes, I love it.
Trish: How about learning how to speak in a way that works for you, that you recognize what your pitfalls are? I listened to something I did the other day. And I say," I think," at the beginning of every sentence. Well obviously it's coming out of your mouth. It's what you think. So I have to train myself not to do that anymore. But just like presentation skills, a conversation is a presentation. So I think people need to start investing in more than just tools, tech, tips, tricks, hacks.
Speaker 1: This is where we spend a lot of our time. The real training that we do every day is on things that I wish I would have learned in school or at some point. But they're basic things like how do you frame a story? What is a story? Dave talks about this a lot. Here are the elements of a story. These are the three things you need to have in a story. Every presentation is a story. Every pitch is a story. Every time you communicate with a group, it's a storytelling activity. And the basics of storytelling, whether it's in a movie or face to face or whatever, they're always the same. You can go back to as far back as you want. You could go to the Bible. You can go to whatever. It's always the same thing. So how do you teach? How do you do that? Like, no one taught me how to do that. I had to learn and that's where we try to teach internally. How do you teach presentation skills? How do you teach how to reach out to someone and give before you ask to get something from them? Like how do you teach these basic things that I wish the world would have taught us? How do you recognize how they're different from you? And then how do you communicate to someone who's different than you are, all of those basic skills.
Trish: How do they want to communicate?
Speaker 1: Yes, totally.
Trish: Sales reps should be saying at the end of every conversation, initial conversation, what's your preferred method of communication?
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. Do you want an email? Do you want me to call you? What do you want?
Trish: I have one client who only texts me.
Speaker 1: I believe it.
Trish: Gone With the Wind sized texts, it's the only way he wants to communicate. Hey, whatever works.
Speaker 1: Whatever you want.
Wade: But also looking internally. So you mentioned you joked when you walked in, you're like," I see you everywhere with videos, LinkedIn." And we talked about this other day. I get a lot of questions from people that are like," Hey, I want to do that, too, but I just don't like being on camera. And I'm like," Don't do it just because I do it. You have to find your thing." And I think just like marketers, we love getting caught in like the best practices. Oh the best time, the best thing you should do in an email is blank. Same thing in sales, what is your thing? I've been at companies where there's five varieties of different types of sales reps. One of them is all facts and just knows the product cold and gives a wow demo. The other one is like all sizzle and tells a great story and doesn't really know the product that well. But they all work and everybody has these kind of different flavors.
Trish: It's bringing the human back into sales is what's going to make you successful. Your personality, your style, whatever it is, you don't have to be like the guy sitting next to you. You don't have to be Hyper Harry or you don't have to be Chatty Susie. You can be you. If you want to be Technical Teddy, use it to your advantage.
Wade: I think we all love being on the other end of getting sold to, we all love when a salesperson is real and honest. The example I use a lot when we give talks is like, when you go to a restaurant, my wife and I were out for her birthday a couple months ago at a restaurant. We ordered a bunch of stuff. The waiter comes up to us and he goes," You guys aren't going to like that thing." He goes," Trust me, get this one." Instantly won us over on the spot. Because like this guy is incentivized to get us to buy his stuff at the restaurant, but he's telling us," Don't get that, get that." That credibility earns you so much points from a credibility standpoint in that conversation.
Speaker 1: And it's a place that you probably want to go back to.
Wade: We want to go back because it's an amazing experience. Same experience this weekend. I bought a new car this weekend. We go in. We're in there for four hours. This guy's telling me," We try to upsell you on this, but you don't actually need that. Just get this."
Trish: You spent four hours buying a car?
Wade: Trish, I'm not crosstalk.
Trish: He bought his Tesla online.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it.
Wade: This was, we're in there with car seats and checking this and that. This wasn't like, no, John, I love you John. But John, that was a fun car for John.
Speaker 1: This is the babies.
Wade: This is the family wagon.
Speaker 1: I like the concept of a sales development rep start because that the role has kind of been there as far as I can remember, but was never...
Trish: crosstalk babies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally.
Trish: It's called telemarketing. My first job, I loved it so much. Yeah, telemarketing rep. And you know what? No CRM, paper, no email.
Speaker 1: Phone book.
Trish: Mailings, oh my God I'm dating myself.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Trish: It was like being Fred Flintstone SDR.
Speaker 1: But was it fun?
Trish: I loved it. I am a sales development rep. My favorite thing I do every day is outbound. Just get on the phone, just get people to talk to me.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I wish I had that. I don't have that skill. I've got to develop that skill.
Trish: Oh my God, it's so fun. There's no such thing as a cold call anymore. It's intelligent outbound reach. What's cold? I can find out everything I need to know about you, everything pretty much except what you had for lunch.
Wade: That's marketing. That's...
Speaker 1: inaudible Dave, if you follow him on Instagram, you could find out what he had for lunch.
Wade: You could find everything out. Everything that's public.
Trish: I'll have to follow him on Instagram.
Wade: I have a listener question.
Wade: This is from Kenny. Kenny's up in Toronto.
Wade: Great sales guy.
Trish: Is it cold? Because it's cold here in Boston.
Wade: It's pretty damn cold here. He said," Trish does everything. She writes books. She does a blog. She has a podcast. She speaks. She goes to events. Which of those things have the biggest impact on your business?"
Wade: I think I know the answer, but I don't want to answer for you.
Speaker 1: We'll see. We should have made him write it down before.
Trish: All right, so the book was awesome. The book has awesome.
Wade: Write down my answer.
Trish: I think not events, definitely not events.
Wade: Say more. Events are so, everybody goes to events. We're all at events. Hey, you guys see, I see John Barrows at every event.
Trish: Right, and good for him because he likes planes. I hate flying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he likes it.
Trish: So here's the thing with an event, I sell to a very specific audience. So I get on stage at an event, there's a hundred people. Maybe 10 of them fit my ideal customer profile and maybe I can get at two of them. I can stand in my office at my standup desk and use my sales engagement platform and get at those same damn 10 people anytime I want.
Wade: Without getting on a plane.
Speaker 1: Right? That's awesome.
Trish: Now podcasts, I love them. I love them because broad audience, diverse audience. I think honest to God, the thing that gets us probably the best spread is our research and our content. If you look at our blog, we blocked eight times a year. People pay attention when we blog.
Speaker 1: That's so good.
Trish: When we do research, I think that gets us, that's how people find us and we give it away for free. So listeners, we do fabulous research for free and we do it because we love you and we love the sales communities.
Speaker 1: And we circulate that research all the time, internally.
Speaker 1: Check it out, link below.
Wade: That's why it works because you don't do it often. When you do it, it's meaningful and it's free because you know that you're going to give this stuff into the world and what you're going to get back from it is going to be great.
Speaker 1: And it's timeless. It's like we're putting in the hard work. We're only going to release quality. You're only releasing quality. It goes against what everyone thinks, which is I just put more and more leads to mediocre stuff that nobody wants to read and you're putting out valuable stuff.
Wade: That's good to know. My answer was going to be all of those things.
Trish: You know what? You are correct.
Wade: Because I think, so I get your point at events and not all events are worth it. It's expensive travel and hours to go to that stuff. But I think what you said to me, like anytime anybody wants to do a video interview, a podcast, we always say yes to that because I think you just got to be everywhere. It's the perception of being everywhere. There's just too much noise. And so I want people to see every video, every podcast, every interview. Especially in your space, there's a lot of people out there.
Speaker 1: And it goes back to something Trish said before, which goes back to the buyer. We believe in investing in all of these things and they have different payoffs, exactly like you said. But the reason that we do it more is that every buyer has a different preference, just like you said. In the communication style, some people want a podcast. A lot of those people who want a podcast will never ever look at a video and vice versa. Some people want video and they'll never do the podcast. Some people want the research and they're never going to do any of the audio or the video stuff. Everyone has a different thing that they want. And some people want phone and this guy wants texts only and this guy wants email. Everyone's got their own thing that they want.
Wade: We're going to wrap. And I have some questions for you, more about you personally. Ready? You can do it. You can do it. You can do it.
Wade: What is your thing, one habit outside of sales development work. Are you a gardener? Do you love CrossFit? Like what is your thing, personally?
Trish: Cross Fit?
Speaker 1: He likes Cross Fit, that's why he's saying it.
Trish: What's my thing?
Wade: Do you meditate?
Trish: No, I'm too hyper. I have bees.
Wade: That's such a good thing. Okay.
Trish: Let me tell you why I have bees, because I'm saving the world for your children.
Wade: It's crosstalk world. It's inaudible planet.
Trish: I live on a lake. I have a beautiful garden and I decided to get bees because I'm trying to save the world.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted bees.
Trish: I am a yuppie and I have my bees I pay for some one to take care of.
Speaker 1: There's a beekeeper.
Trish: I have bees.
Wade: The bees live on your property.
Trish: They're tenants.
Wade: That's awesome.
Trish: I go out. I go out and do stuff.
Speaker 1: Stuff with the bees?
Wade: crosstalk worth it.
Trish: I'm an avid golfer, horrible. The worst golfer on the face of the earth.
Wade: At least you're avid. You're an avid golfer.
Trish: Oh, terrible. But I love it.
Wade: Okay, we're going to play golf.
Trish: Oh my God, I belong, a great club.
Wade: I'll have to go with you.
Speaker 1: Til they let them him out.
Wade: I'll carry your bags.
Speaker 1: Otherwise, they might not let him in.
Trish: Let's see what else? Final thing, I love my family.
Wade: Oh, that's awesome.
Trish: I have an awesome family.
Wade: That's awesome. Bees.
Speaker 1: Are they nearby, family?
Trish: Believe it or not, I still have my parents, 90 years old, active. They live in Naples, Florida.
Wade: That's incredible.
Trish: My son lives about eight minutes away from me. My son, who is Matt Bertuzzi, brilliant, member of the Bridge Group. Has his own book, which is fabulous.
Speaker 1: Check out his book, Matt Bertuzzi.
Trish: It's on how to implement sales development strategies in the Salesforce lightning experience.
Wade: It is cool to be in business together?
Trish: It is amazing. But there are secrets to being in a family business together. You have to do totally different things.
Wade: No overlap, right?
Trish: Zippo, zero, none overlap.
Wade: So there's no conflict or just like...
Trish: There's no conflict because, the world does not know this, but he is the boss of me.
Speaker 1: Kids are always the boss of you.
Wade: They know it now.
Speaker 1: That's what happens.
Wade: What is your...
Speaker 1: Wade knows this once he had a kid. He has a new boss.
Wade: I have a new boss. She's little dictator. This, now. I slept on the couch last night because of the dictator. My wife is sick. I tried to sleep in my daughter's room. She stood up and looked at me for 20 minutes crying. And I said," I'm going on the couch." It was awful. Okay. What's your morning routine? What did you do this morning? That's what I want to know.
Trish: I'm at my desk by 7: 30.
Speaker 1: That's in your house?
Trish: Virtual, virtual.
Speaker 1: Is your desk your bed?
Trish: I don't do that. I can't do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me neither.
Trish: I have a real office video set up, the whole thing, yeah. So I have to do email and drink coffee before anything else. And I only had one cup of coffee today, so it's not like that. So, and that's usually when I talk to Matt about any issues we have, because he's an early riser, too. And I just get caught up on all my stuff. Like during the day when I'm getting emails, oh that's interesting. Off it goes. I know I'm going to look at it in the morning.
Speaker 1: Have you always been an early riser?
Trish: I have.
Wade: Yeah, same.
Trish: An acquired taste.
Wade: Yeah. I love it. Yeah, okay. That's good. How do you work? How do you work? Like you're remote all day. Do you have scheduled time? You have like three hours of deep work and then you do emails?
Trish: God, doesn't that sound good? So my calendar, I guard with my life. But at 11 and three is my outbound sales time, and it's sacrosanct time. I try not to do anything else. At 11:00 AM and at 3: 00 PM, I am at my standup desk, which is where I do my best selling, selling. Scheduled sales calls go in wherever they go, scheduling gym time, skip it a lot.
Speaker 1: It's in the calendar.
Wade: It's there.
Trish: And Thursdays are only selling day. Like I don't do podcasts most times. I won't leave the office on a Thursday, so I'm pretty regimented. I think you have to be like that if you're going to run a business.
Wade: I've seen John Barrows, like his calendar looks similar. I don't know too much about this world, but it seems to be like," Okay, I'm making these calls during this time."
Trish: He's awesome.
Wade: I love that discipline. I love it. I try to have that with writing or creating. It doesn't always happen that way. What are books that you would recommend the most to sales leaders, whether they're current leaders or aspiring leaders?
Wade: Sales Development Playbook.
Speaker 1: Number one.
Speaker 1: Matt Bertuzzi is book number two.
Trish: Number two. Let's see, I just bought because I heard it was awesome. I haven't read it yet. I think it's called Growth IQ by Tiffany Bova.
Speaker 1: I'll check that out.
Trish: I've heard rave reviews about it, so it just landed on my desk yesterday.
Wade: She's awesome.
Trish: I am madly in love with Keenan's new book called Gap Selling. Really, really interesting. Here's what it's about, quick synopsis. People either sell to current state or future state, nobody sells to the gap on how you get there. That's where sales should be selling.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Trish: So there's that. And I'm also reading Eat Their Lunch by Anthony Ionareno, which is about competitive selling. Not that I have competitors or care about them, but I want to beat them.
Speaker 1: In case they try to emerge.
Wade: That's awesome. All right. Gap selling.
Wade: I could use that. There are a lot of people that are right in the middle.
Speaker 1: Everyone's in the middle. Everyone's trying to go from one state to another state and I love that observation of like, sell to that. Sell to the transformation. Not the, you're already there.
Trish: That is correct. I saw him speak about that book at Inbound last year and I sat in the audience going," Oh, I'm a loser. I'm a lsoer. I got to get this book. I got to do this." Because it made so much sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's the equivalent of the weight loss before and after. You're selling the transformation, you can't just sell the weight loss books on someone who's already jacked on the cover. And you don't sell them in your current state. You want to sell the gap, go from here to there. Sell the transformation. I love it. Thank you so much for being on, Trish. If you love Trish like you do, leave a six star review, six stars only and shout out to Trish. Yeah, the system only goes to five, but all of our reviews rate five stars. And then in the comments they write six stars. That's our hack. All right, six stars.
Wade: Six stars.
Speaker 1: Check out Trish Bertuzzi's book. Check out the BridgeGroupInc. com.
Trish: BridgegroupInc. com.
Speaker 1: Bridge Group, and download all their original research that's there.
Wade: You want to hear one of the all time power moves in marketing?
Speaker 1: What's that?
Wade: Trish Bertuzzi's Twitter handle is @ bridgegroup.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Wade: @bridgegroupinc. How good is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you need to do. So check her out on all the social stuff. Thank you so much.
Trish: My pleasure.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Thank you, Trish.