#77: Does It Matter Where You Sit At Work?
Speaker 1: Is there a memory card in there?
Speaker 2: The memory card.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: It's in there. I need to pull up the review, so I'm ready for fan crosstalk
Speaker 1: All right. I just want to give everyone a quick tip before we set it off.
Speaker 2: Okay. Oh, we're going?
Speaker 1: One, this is the way you look like when you have a kid, busted.
Speaker 2: Hold on. I am actually going to start with this because I have a bone to pick with everybody. Multiple people have come up to me today and been like," You look tired."
Speaker 1: His eyes already got bags.
Speaker 2: I got one of those eye pimples.
Speaker 1: He's got an eye pimple. I don't want to call you out.
Speaker 2: But that's what it is. There's nothing. Amy crosstalk.
Speaker 1: crosstalk.
Speaker 2: Leah is listening to this right now and be like," I told you to put a warm towel on it."
Speaker 1: Oh, my God, it's a mess. Put cucumbers on it.
Speaker 2: I'm not complaining because a lot of people have kids, just got to battle through it.
Speaker 1: Battle through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's number one.
Speaker 1: Okay. So that's number one tip that's why you look like... Number two tip, hopefully Amy and DHD could take the show over today, do not eat a burrito before you do a podcast.
Speaker 2: Did you do that?
Speaker 1: All right. Because I'm dragging hard, man. I was almost asleep at my desk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on Instagram right now. I could show you what he looks like.
Speaker 1: I have a coffee. I have a filter. I have a phone. I have everything here trying to keep me up.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: I'm falling asleep.
Speaker 2: We're going to try to keep you up. I'm just pulling up reviews so I can read one later. But-
Speaker 1: When you do leave a review,-
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: ...leave us your favorite burrito place, city, and location. We're on the road a lot and we'll let you know how that goes. But I want to hear the best.
Speaker 2: I love it. All right. So my favorite part about doing this podcast is that even if I'm prepared and I have an idea, sometimes you'll just drop a new bomb and it'll already be written for me. So I had notes. I had stuff that I wanted to talk about today. Then yesterday, you sent an email to the team and I wanted to just completely do it. I should completely shift, okay?
Speaker 1: I do not remember the crosstalk.
Speaker 2: You don't remember? This is true. This is how we do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay. We're moving seats on Friday at Drift, okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want to call this episode, Does It Matter Where You Sit At Work? Because we're moving seats on Friday, do you think a lot of companies do seat shuffles or no? Is that-
Speaker 1: I don't think so, but we used to do them in the past at different companies and we would do them quarterly. We haven't done that frequently here at Drift, but I think we'll pick it up now that the team is crosstalk.
Speaker 2: What I thought was interesting and why I wanted to interview you about this on this podcast, Seeking Wisdom-
Speaker 1: About the email? Never interview me about the email crosstalk
Speaker 2: Because you didn't just say," Hey, we're moving seats." You said that you have a religion about this.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: That's a strong word. So tell me about this. Why do you have a religion about... You said the specific line was," I have some religion on seating because I've found that when people wall themselves off, bad things happen."
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: I want to dig deep on this because everybody that's listening to this podcast is at work.
Speaker 1: Yeah crosstalk.
Speaker 2: A lot of them probably were in companies they've never moved once, so let's go.
Speaker 1: I think seating matters. I became religious over the years about it because I think the people that you surround yourself, like we talk about all the time, matter a lot.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 1: I actually sent or I put on Instagram something else today about this Harvard study that was in HBR about the proximity of people who sat next to top performers, their performance picked up.
Speaker 2: Totally.
Speaker 1: So it was just this little thing. So I think it matters because of that, but I also think the reason that I care about it so much is we tend to build walls and we tend to optimize for our local incentives. What that means in practice is, if you create teams that are homogeneous, so they're not mixed, and they tend to optimize what they're trying to do and what they're trying to work on for that local team's incentives.
Speaker 2: You ended up building all these rival gangs all across the company.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. That naturally happens. You see, you build up these gangs and you're like," F those people over there. We got to optimize for our thing over here." So what I want to break down is like what we say, we need to be customer- centric, customer- driven, the ultimate truth is the customer. So what we want to do is have cross- functional teams that sit together so that we break down those walls.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So these are the guardrails you gave, and this was specific to product-
Speaker 1: Yes, product.
Speaker 2: ...because that's your thing, I guess.
Speaker 1: Mm- hmm( affirmative).
Speaker 2: You said a couple of guardrails for every... So these are the guardrails you gave the team. Designers need to sit with their product team. Product managers need to sit within their product team, and then customer advocates also sit together with their product team.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Customer advocates at Drift would be something like support at other companies. What we're doing different that I've never done before at other companies is we've always had designers and PMs and product marketers and engineers sit together in a product team. What we did was take it up a level like we do. We said," Now that we're going to build out a support team, we call them customer advocates for bunch of reasons, let's have them embedded within the product teams so that we localize the entire life cycle of the product experience in one team.
Speaker 2: I love that. I'm going to rewind that. Slow down right now. Listen to that again. The support people sit next to the engineer who built the product, the PM who made the whole thing, pieced together, talk to customers, and the designer who designed the product. That is called the no bullshit product team.
Speaker 1: Yes. No excuses,
Speaker 2: No excuses.
Speaker 1: No excuses. Everyone is there so there's no finger point. What we're trying to minimize are excuses and finger- pointing, and we want to enable as much control and autonomy as possible. So that's why we do that.
Speaker 2: Do you think that this can be applied to a non- product teams teams?
Speaker 1: Absolutely. We try to do the same things within sales teams or let's say, revenue teams. So try to localize marketing, sales, and success resources together if possible. Right now, we're split up on that side at Drift, but over time, once we get those teams big enough, we will try to localize everyone on one team.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the key theme overall here is embedding.
Speaker 1: Yes. Embedding is the key so that then, you can break down those walls and so that you can learn, through osmosis, just over hearing," Oh, that's what design is working on. That's what the PM's are working on. This is what the engineers are working on. We did this originally back in the day because we wanted to break down those walls because there were excuses about like," I didn't know about that. I don't have time to talk today," and so we just removed those things crosstalk. Nowadays, it sits an inch from you so that's no excuse.
Speaker 2: You read my mind because this was what I was going to bring up, is all the stories you've told in the past about," Oh, I didn't see his Slack message. I didn't see her email. I didn't read the Wiki post."
Speaker 1: Totally. I was talking to a PM yesterday from Wayfair. His name's David. What's up? He was getting advice on basically what happens at all companies, which is teams become walled off, become dysfunctional. How do you do this? So I was telling that story which resonated with him, which was these walls build up and our job is to break down these walls quickly. A typical wall that'll build up is a communication breakdown. Usually, what a company will do is add process and people and lots of band- aids instead of fixing the root problem. The root problem is like that Dave didn't talk to Amy. Usually, the way this would come up is Dave would say, " Amy's on the second floor and I'm on the third floor." So I'd say, " So go to third floor." crosstalk.
Speaker 2: You have no problem going and walking out to get a Starbucks a half mile down the road.
Speaker 1: Exactly. I would just repeat myself and I still do just so people would get how ludicrous it sounds. So just go talk to them. I don't know what they're working on. Amy posted on Slack. Slack's a mess, I can't read it. Okay, she also post it on the Wiki. But I can't find it on the Wiki. She also sent an email. Okay, I didn't have time to read the email. It's like," All right."
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 1: Crazy. Let's fix the root problem. Communicate.
Speaker 2: Especially when you know the root problem, you said this, is every problem in business usually comes down to people.
Speaker 1: People problem. So fix the people problem instead of putting more process and divisions and walls. So we're trying to avoid that, and that's why seating is so important and also important so that you can learn from the other disciplines and that you can level up. We're all trying to level up here. DHD and Amy leveling up. We've got some crazy, freaking cameras in here now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaking of level up, we were actually having a discussion, Amy and I, this morning. The channel where we want to send everybody to is Instagram. So go there. It's heydrift.
Speaker 1: Heydrift. One word.
Speaker 2: Why? Because that Instagram is two mega trends in one,-
Speaker 1: Oh, man.
Speaker 2: ...messaging and video.
Speaker 1: The nephews flipping crosstalk
Speaker 2: In one channel, you see that?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, but go there. What we're going to is we're going to be posting... All this stuff is on Instagram Stories right now. We're going to give away HYPERGROWTH tickets, but the only way that you can get them, you have to swipe up and send us a message from the Instagram Story. So go over to Instagram, it's heydrift. Send us a message through Instagram Story. You're going to see this, probably comment right now and say," What's up?"
Speaker 1: You know what? I discovered on Instagram, speaking about Instagram Stories, if you go to Instagram, you pull it up, if you swipe up when you're taking a photo, you can choose from screenshots and photos you have. So you know what you do? You pull up and you take that screenshot of that five- star review you just left, and you send it to heydrift, and that it can get right back at you.
Speaker 2: Now that is the easiest way to get two HYPERGROWTH tickets.
Speaker 1: Come on.
Speaker 2: That's$1, 400 value, free.
Speaker 1: You leave it. Leave the review on the phone, six stars only. Take a screenshot, swipe up in Instagram when you're sending a story. Send us that, heydrift, and we'll get back at you with some tickets.
Speaker 2: We'll get back at you. Okay, fan love of the week.
Speaker 1: With crosstalk?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you know what's funny about this? We have 265, five- star reviews. We have one four- star review.
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Ouch. Ice cold. It was intentional, I saw the comment. It was intentional. It was like,-
Speaker 1: He's coming at us.
Speaker 2: ..."Stop begging for reviews."
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: Another thing, you're going on a podcast next week. You'll hear more about that later.
Speaker 1: All right. crosstalk.
Speaker 2: The host emailed me.
Speaker 1: Okay, what did she say?
Speaker 2: She said," Do you guys have any tips on getting reviews?" I'm trying to get review so much." No, I noticed you guys have a lot."
Speaker 1: A lot of reviews.
Speaker 2: I said," Go to everyone at the end of our episode, that's all it is."
Speaker 1: Six- star reviews only. Shout out DHD. She hasn't got a shout out in a while. Shout out to Amy.
Speaker 2: Respect. All right.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think that people would want this show to be the DHD and Amy show-
Speaker 2: I think they would.
Speaker 1: ...instead of us.
Speaker 2: I think they would.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They would want us to turn it that way.
Speaker 1: Turn the cameras around.
Speaker 2: This is a review from Ryan. He said, " This is one of the few shows I listen to as soon as a new episode drops." What's up? I know this is Ryan from digitalmarketer. com. Shout out. " In fact, I once binge listens to eight- hour straight at one and a half crosstalk flight from London to Austin." It's like we were there with him. I don't know why you'd want that.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: "And not a single episode disappointed. I love the mix of philosophy with real- world tactics. Keep up the good work."
Speaker 1: That is awesome.
Speaker 2: Five stars then. When you hear that, no, it's not six, it's five.
Speaker 1: Five stars. I was interviewing someone today, Chuck. What's up, Chuck?
Speaker 2: What's up, Chuck?
Speaker 1: He listens to all the episodes.
Speaker 2: I actually see a candidate that was in this week right now, five- star review.
Speaker 1: Get out of here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I swear.
Speaker 1: He just asked me when's the next one going to drop. Will it drop today or tomorrow?
Speaker 2: They doesn't know. This is going to come out tonight.
Speaker 1: Tonight?
Speaker 2: Right after this. Right after this, it's going to come right out.
Speaker 1: Chuck, I don't have answers like that.
Speaker 2: I'm just the talent, I just show up.
Speaker 1: I just show up. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: All right, cool. So that's it.
Speaker 1: All right. Seeking Wisdom. Promo code. If you go to hypergrowth. drift.com,-
Speaker 2: Please.
Speaker 1: ...get your ticket. Come hang with us. Only then will you have a chance at meeting Amy or DHD.
Speaker 2: Please.
Speaker 1: Never before. All right.
Speaker 2: Peace.
Speaker 1: See you.