#50: What We Learned Starting This Podcast In 2016

Media Thumbnail
  • 0.5
  • 1
  • 1.25
  • 1.5
  • 1.75
  • 2
This is a podcast episode titled, #50: What We Learned Starting This Podcast In 2016. The summary for this episode is: If you liked this episode, we bet that you’ll love our blog content. blog.drift.com/#subscribe Subscribe to never miss a post & join the 20,000+ other pros committed to getting better every day. --- Looking back on 2016 and the first year of Seeking Wisdom (including the impact the podcast has had on our business at Drift). We thought we'd end 2016 and kickoff 2017 by going back through some of the key lessons from the past year, including: - How a modern product team should work. - How to become a learning machine. - The power of learning from others. - Why you need role models. - Innovation, not invention. - The secret to running effective 1:1 meetings. - The art of managing up. - Advice for recent grads/millenials: you need to carry the water. Here's a link to the Simon Sinek video David mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU Two Ways To Support The Show 1. Subscribe. 2. Leave us a five-star review. Here's how: bit.ly/5-Stars-Only Connect With Us Follow David (twitter.com/dcancel) and Dave (twitter.com/davegerhardt) on Twitter. Come hang out with us on Twitter @seekingwisdomio. Learn more about Drift at Drift.com.

Dave: Hey everybody. It's just Dave, DC's not here. Well, he's going to be here in a minute. We have an episode for you, but just a quick PSA. We need you to subscribe. That is the way that more people find out about Seeking Wisdom, because it climbs the charts in iTunes. If you subscribe, you don't ever miss an episode. If you've ever listened to a podcast, they tell you to subscribe and we're feeling it firsthand. We want you to subscribe. So do us a favor. It doesn't matter if you're listening on iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, SoundCloud, whatever. Just do us that one favor. If you're a fan of the show, hit subscribe. Maybe you'll even leave a review. DC will ask you more about that later. So please subscribe. Thanks for an amazing year. And let's get into this, the final episode of Seeking Wisdom in 2016.

DC: And we're back.

Dave: This is it. This is it.

DC: And what is it?

Dave: This is the end. Well, this is the last podcast of this year.

DC: Damn.

Dave: But I mean, it's just the beginning.

DC: Should we be sad?

Dave: No, because people get sentimental about this time of year and they like to make resolutions and, you know.

DC: Not me. I say let's get it.

Dave: Yeah., We're always looking forward.

DC: I love it.

Dave: So I did a little look back, I did a little homework, I did a look back at some of the more popular topics from our podcasts. I think what we're going to do today is we're going to spend the last episode of the year. We're going to talk through some of our most popular topics. We'll just pretend like people may have never listened to this before.

DC: Because we want them to kick off 2017 in the right way. This isn't just a recap. This is like, how do we start 2017 on the right foot.

Dave: Right.

DC: Lessons from 2016.

Dave: Yeah, so we're going to hook you up with, I think there's one, two, three, four, five, six ish topics that we'll run through. But I got a question for you first, actually.

DC: Hit me.

Dave: What did you learn in this first year of doing this podcast?

DC: Good. I think that the biggest learning was the simplest. Just be ourselves.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: Let's just have a conversation like we have every day, be natural, and people will self- select in. Versus trying to be like anyone else. So we learned our mojo.

Dave: Yeah, we did. And it's like anything, it takes reps and sets. It took a while

DC: We threw away a lot of episodes in the beginning, where we tried to be-

Dave: Too scripted.

DC: Too scripted, too structured, like everyone else.

Dave: Yeah, but I think that says a lot about what people are interested in today. It's not just a us thing. This is something we talk about from a brand perspective all the time, you have to be authentic, you have to be real. And when we made that switch to just be more like we're hanging out, having a conversation, I think the download numbers followed.

DC: Oh, absolutely. And it's funny now because people who listen to podcasts, who come into the office and hear us talking, they're just like, wait, this is exactly like the podcast. There's no difference.

Dave: All right. This was the other thing I want to ask you. Do you feel like Seeking Wisdom has had a impact on our business?

DC: Absolutely.

Dave: Really?

DC: Yeah.

Dave: I agree with you.

DC: Can I measure it?

Dave: Yep.

DC: No. Not easily. It's all anecdotal, so people will get nervous about that. But the number of times we hear from candidates, friends, professional friends, personal friends, new customers, anyone that we encounter. The number of times we hear them say Seeking Wisdom is amazing.

Dave: Yeah. Basically, every new candidate that comes in our office. You text me all the time. You're at some random, like, book club with a bunch of guys from your old town. And they're like, oh, we listen to Seeking Wisdom.

DC: Crazy. All surgeons and doctors.

Dave: That's awesome.

DC: And actually I had a gathering at my house on Christmas day and it was just a bunch of personal friends. No one in our world, no one in technology, no one that I even knew even listened to our podcast. And a couple of people that were there were just like, well, I listened to Seeking Wisdom. I was like, what? Why do you listen to Seeking Wisdom? What are you talking about?

Dave: That's unbelievable, yeah.

DC: They're like, yeah, I listen to every episode. And I was like, what? It just blew me away. I was like, why are you listening? I was like, I pretend that nobody listens.

Dave: I love it. All right. So funny enough, this will be episode number 50.

DC: Five zero.

Dave: Nice number. We put in a little work. One 15 minute episode a week and that's where we're at. All right, so here's what we're going to start. First topic. This was the first topic that we did, which was, how a modern product team should work.

DC: Wow. That is a long time ago.

Dave: Yeah. But okay. So first of all, explain this and then I bet you that your thinking has probably even evolved since then.

DC: Yeah. So we did this podcast, and we did a blog post on this, and I've talked about this a bunch in 2016 in different formats. But I've been on this journey, last nine years, this religion around building customer driven companies, teams, et cetera. And in some ways, in many ways, actually, in all ways, Drift is the manifestation of all of this, because we are building software to help the next generation of companies be closer to their customers. And so I wrote this, we did this podcast, and we did this blog post on how a modern product teams should work. And basically. The thesis there was that, instead of having roadmaps, and features, and release dates, and all of these kinds of things that we're used to and conventional wisdom tells us about. Instead of having those, which all, in my opinion, optimize for the company and optimize for the process, let's figure out a way where we can build teams that are centered around the customer and that we always measure success in terms of the customer. And that will realign how you think about teams, throw away a lot of conventional wisdom, and really focus everyone in the company, and especially product teams, on being customer driven.

Dave: So your key ingredient in this model, though, which I think is a change for a lot of people, is really small, fully autonomous teams.

DC: Yeah, and we reached that. That's important because we want as much independence within the team as possible. So the smaller the team, the easier it is to have that independence. And we want them to be autonomous, and we can do that only when we totally align them with what we think success for our company will be, which is happier customers who use your products longer over time. And in that case, we create measure ways to measure success, which are customer metrics, that tell us that that product team or product teams are being successful.

Dave: Right. But your thing is, you try to keep it, there's no vanity metrics.

DC: No.

Dave: Like, cut out all the bullshit and let's say, what is the number that we're trying to move? Let's say it is retention. You want lower churn.

DC: Yep.

Dave: All those teams' metrics have to be aligned around that.

DC: Exactly. It will be aligned around that customer metric.

Dave: Got you.

DC: That's a good one. Usage frequency is another good one, which is like how, for every new feature and every feature that you're building. Or whatever it is kind of product that you're building in the world, how often is it being used? How often is it being used by different types of customers? High end customers, low end customers, younger customers, older customers. We look at all those different team things and say, is a team being successful. Right.

Dave: And then the thing that you never, that's a change for a lot of people that are used to agile and waterfall is, yeah, I know this is an issue, but we'll put it on our roadmap.

DC: Yeah. Oh, forget it, man.

Dave: That's the one that makes your blood boil the most.

DC: Yeah. Put it on the roadmap. Which means, that's the equivalent of saying, fuck you. That's a modern, politically correct, office speak for fuck you, we're never going to do it. And so no, forget putting it on the roadmap. It's either a priority or it's not a priority. And who is it a priority for? The customer or for ourselves?

Dave: So that was a big theme throughout this whole podcasts this year. But before we move on to the next topic, I think there's one mistake that you mentioned a lot, that a lot of people make when they talk about this. So autonomy is becoming more of a team thing now. Giving employees all the power and everything. But the number one mistake that people make is that they assume that autonomy equals accountability. Like, this model doesn't work if you're not accountable.

DC: Yep. What they do miss is that there's this kind of give and take on autonomy. And on one end is autonomy and the other side of it, accountability. So it's the flip side of autonomy is accountability. And you can't have autonomy without accountability. And so people who try to argue for autonomy usually don't want accountability. Oh, sometimes I should say, sometimes don't want accountability. Which is that case, it's not autonomy, it's anarchy. And so you don't want anarchy. You want autonomy, but you have to have the right level of accountability there. Ideally, accountability to the customer instead of to the group or to the company. And I think that will move you in the right direction.

Dave: All right. So topic number two. That was topic number one. Topic number two, how to become a learning machine. I think this was our central, this is how I would boil down Seeking Wisdom into one line.

DC: What is it?

Dave: How to become a learning machine.

DC: That's it. Is it too long for a tagline?

Dave: No, it's pretty good.

DC: Yeah.

Dave: It's the central theme.

DC: I think it's a central theme of Seeking Wisdom, it's the central theme of everyone who works at Drift., is that we all are obsessed with becoming this better version of ourselves, and becoming these learning machines. And we have a bias towards people who are these learning machines.

Dave: Okay, for the people that might not know you well yet, they're newer listeners, what's your learning framework? What do you do to learn?

DC: I do a lot of things. I think one, the meta thing, the overarching thing is to constantly be pushing yourself into uncomfortable situations because it's only through discomfort that growth comes. Whatever kind of growth you're looking for, it can be intellectual, it could be physical, whatever it is, you're going to go through some level of discomfort and pain in order to grow. Because you're going into new areas, by definition, that are unfamiliar, that you don't have habits around, that you're not good at, that you might suck at. And so you need to push into those uncomfortable areas. And so once you have that framework, then you have to think about, well, how do I fast forward that. On one end, I can try to learn by brute force and just learn on my own, learn through mistakes. And I think you need to make a certain level of mistakes, we all do. Or you can say, maybe there's a faster way. And I think the one faster way that I have learned, the only one, is to actually learn from other's mistakes. So first, you try to learn from other's mistakes. If you can't learn from others, then you're going to need to make some on your own. And when you learn from others, there are a couple of ways you can do that. One, the easiest way, is reading. That's the easiest, and cheapest, and the biggest bang for your buck. The other is putting yourself into different situations, where you deal with different people. Peer groups, mentors, role models. And we've done lots of episodes on the differences between all those things. But what you're doing is, you're putting yourself into new areas, new situations where you can learn from others. Like, let's say I'm trying to get back into cycling right now. And so what's the best way for me to get into cycling? One, I could just do it my own. And I probably will, and I am. And at some point, I will push myself up to a certain level, and probably make some mistakes along the way, and hopefully progress. The other way is to start to surround myself with people who are better than I am and who are interested in cycling, who are more advanced than I am. And by doing so, by going out and putting yourself out in a race, or a group ride, or something like that, you're going to force yourself up to at least, ideally the middle of the pack, if not the back of the pack. But probably the back of the pack in a good group ride is better than you could do on your own. And then how can I get better again? I can find someone who's an expert at cycling and had them mentor me or, ideally, be a role model for me.

Dave: I love it. So you have a nice segue into the next topic.

DC: Oh, what's that?

Dave: Role models. Number three, role models. This is a key theme that sits across everything. And then basically you, you just mentioned it, right?

DC: Yeah.

Dave: But here's the thing that I want you to mention is, I think the thing that most people get screwed up is, that a role model has to be some person that I have some formal meeting on the calendar every third Thursday, to have lunch, to talk about my life.

DC: Yeah. No role model that you want is going to sign up for that, I'll tell you that. Definitely I won't.

Dave: Right. Like, nobody has time. Nobody wants to do that.

DC: Nobody has time. So I think the key word to focus in on how to find role models, is the word model. And model, for me, is all about modeling. And so the way that you model good behaviors and you model behaviors that you're trying to optimize for, is you need to see them, you need to experience them, you need to learn by observation, and by doing. And so role models are all about finding people, either who you can actually spend time with, or you can look upon from a far and look at their their experience. And benchmark yourself against their own performance, and their trajectory, and their progression over time. And use them as a way to gauge if you're getting better or not. And maybe look at how you can optimize certain steps that they were able to optimize.

Dave: So I wrote down something from this book that I'm reading, that this is right in line with this.

DC: What's that book?

Dave: I guess it's not too much of science. Yeah. It's Tools of Titans by Tim Ferriss.

DC: Okay, yeah.

Dave: So he has all these collection of interviews. You can skip around, it's good, easy to skip around and find some things. But I sent this to you the other day. Because we always talk about role models. And this one guy he has in the book, I think he's a Marine general or something like Army general.

DC: Stanley McChrystal.

Dave: Yeah, McChrystal. And he talks about role models and he says, everybody should have a list of three people that they want to emulate. That there should be one, you should have one person who's more senior than you that you want to emulate to. Two, you should have a peer, so somebody who's the exact same level as you, but you think that they're better in doing a better job. And then three, you should have a subordinate, someone who's doing the job that you did two, three, four years ago, but might be a little bit better. And then you constantly measure yourself based on those three people.

DC: Yeah, when Dave shared this with me the other day, I said, Dave is finally leveling up. Respect.

Dave: He grew up.

DC: He grew up. Davey boy.

Dave: What do you think about his take on that?

DC: Yeah. I think we've touched upon that in different ways in different episodes.

Dave: It's a good framework, though.

DC: But I like his simplicity of that framework, which is just, model yourself against three different versions of what you're going after. And that way, basically, what he's outlining there is just what we talked about, which is, you need to create your own benchmarks. So what was the current version of you versus the year from you version of you that you want, versus the five- year version of you? Like, let's look at all those because if we look at every one of those points along the spectrum, then we have a trajectory that we can model against and see our own progression. By the way, you mentioned Tim Feriss. Last episode, 49, Tim, I haven't heard back from you. I challenge you to a steel cage match. What's up? Stop dodging me.

Dave: Somebody tweeted that out, too.

DC: Stop dodging me, stop avoiding me. All right? Don't pretend you didn't hear this. Let's do this.

Dave: Man, DC's been on the indoor cycle all winter.

DC: Man, I've been on the cycle, I'm ready.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: I'm cycling along. By the way, if you're into cycling, hit me up on Zwift.

Dave: Oh!

DC: Trainer a road. Strava. Look for the uncle. Let's do this. I can't be this fat all next year, man.

Dave: No, you need goals.

DC: I got goals for next year.

Dave: You got goals. All right. Number four, innovation not invention. Applies to more than just product teams.

DC: Tasty.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: That's one of my favorites and we talk about it a lot. We haven't talked about it that much within Drift recently. But I'd say, in the first six months, we talked about it a lot, all the time.

Dave: Big time.

DC: And we were talking to the designers, and the product teams, and everyone that had their hands in making the product, about how important it was to not get confused between invention and innovation. And what we want to do is innovate. We don't want to necessarily invent. And that most people get this backwards and they tried to invent everything. And invention is all about unique solutions, which may or may not be a solution to any problem in the world. And for us, we're looking for existing problems that already exist. And we're looking to innovate based on technologies, patterns, habits, what have you, and combining lots of different things into a novel innovation.

Dave: Yeah, because I think that the thing that you have mentioned, which is, you have to leverage the way people already behave. Like, you can make something new, but it should be based on a way that people are already familiar with doing something.

DC: Yeah, a pattern that they already have.

Dave: Whether it's how you swipe on a phone. Or the example that you pointed out, I think when we did this original episode, was if you go look at all the calendaring apps of all time, there's a reason why they're basically 80% similar.

DC: Yeah, similar. Aside from having dates on them, they all look a certain way, they all have certain things on the same places within the calendar. And it's because they're trying to take advantage of habits that we already have built within us. And we all know how hard it is to form a new habit. So why, when you're creating a new product or new service in the market, would you try to force every one of your users to form a new habit around your product? Why not leverage, if you can, the cognitive thoughts that they have around certain patterns. Like, we have a set of headphones here on the table here. If I were trying to solve the problem which headphones solve, I probably would design something that looks like a headphone. And that's where I most headphones that you see look like the way they do. I probably wouldn't say, oh, I'm turning to design new headphones, let's see if I can beam sound in through my eyeballs, and then go out and sell that. Because, maybe that'll work, maybe it won't, but that is more about optimizing for the inventor and not the audience.

Dave: Yeah. You'd go out and you'd take this pair of headphones, and you'd go talk to 20 people who don't like these headphones, and figure out what they don't like about it, and what's frustrating, and what could be better.

DC: Yeah. And that seems like common sense when you say it out loud, but most designers and most people within technology, most product creators don't think that way. They want to have something that has never been invented before and then try to go find, basically, a solution looking for a problem.

Dave: I think you have, in the posts that you wrote, this actually might've been an internal post on our wiki. You wrote how a craftsman would build a chair.

DC: Oh, no, we posted that externally.

Dave: Externally, okay.

DC: Yeah, it's on Medium. Medium/ Decancel, take a look. And then Amanda from our team also wrote a post that was called What I Learned as my First Year as a Product Designer. And in it, she actually takes the stuff that we've posted internally, like comparing Slack to IRC clients before, comparing iMessages and WhatsApp, and all the modern messaging apps to SMS messages from long ago, calendar apps, email apps. All of these different apps that we may look at and think are new, and comparing them to existing patterns that already existed.

Dave: All right, last topic to send us out of here, how to work. We talked a lot about work. People really liked this topic.

DC: Hard work.

Dave: Hard work is a key theme.

DC: That's what Vig and a couple other people on the team would say, let me listen to Seeking Wisdom. Hard work. Work harder.

Dave: The tagline of crosstalk Yeah. They're like, here's the recap of today's Seeking Wisdom: work hard.

DC: Hell yeah.

Dave: So a couple of things under this" how to work" bucket that I want to cover with you. So number one was, we talked about, this is the one thing that nobody tells you about your career. You have like skills, but you don't, you don't get taught how to come in and do work everyday. What does that mean? What are the nuances of that?

DC: So deep, this is philosophical, I think. I think a lot of people who, if you haven't worked throughout your schooling career, whatever your schooling career was, there are just basic things that you have to learn about. Your etiquette around how to work. How to keep people informed with whom you work with, how to be a good teammate. All of these things, you have to learn as you work. And more and more people are not coming into, at least, technology workforce with those kind of skills.

Dave: Right. A lot of people are coming out of college, directly into a early stage company, where there's not a lot of structure, not a lot of process. Where if you started your career at a bigger company, you might have 30 days of training, then you might have six levels of people that you report in to, and you might have meetings at this time and that time.

DC: That's why it's always great, I think to, at least for early stage companies, to hire people who have had some experience in a larger company. Because usually, those companies, one, they're coming from a place where it probably wasn't that great. Two, so you look pretty good damn good. No. But really, they've been taught the process of working. Like when to show up, how to work when they're actually at work, how to deal with people on your team, how to communicate, all the basic things that, if you say it out loud and you talk to people about it, you'd be like, yeah, that's obvious. Everyone knows that. And then when you manage people who haven't had that experience, you're like, holy shit, it's not obvious.

Dave: Yeah. So a couple things that we mentioned, that are specific to this. And number one is, the most underrated thing is showing your work.

DC: Yes.

Dave: That's something that we have talked about this year a bunch. Why is that so important? And if we're all so connected all the time, why does it matter if I show my work or not?

DC: Why do you think?

Dave: Because, personally, two things. One, I don't want people wondering what the hell I'm doing all day. I want that to be obvious. The other thing is, if I'm working on something that is going to require your feedback and somebody else's feedback, I don't want to deliver you the finished thing, and be like, here it is. Because it's impossible, it's really hard for you to give me feedback at that point in time. Hey, I just wrote this 2, 500 word thing about this thing that we're working on. And then you're going to be like, well, this is wrong. And you got to go rewrite it. Versus, more iterative, smaller steps. Those are the two big things for me, personally. But I think a lot of people just still live in this world where you can just go hide and then you show up on Friday. Like, at school. And you're like, here's my homework for the week.

DC: I think it's interesting because it's often a type of person who is looking for and asking for an extreme level of transparency, when it comes to a company. But are themselves and how they work, very not transparent in what they're doing. And so I think for us, this is all about transparency should be at every level, and every corner, at every thing we do. And so it's important to be transparent about what we're doing so we don't have people who are on our team or other teams, wondering, hey, what does Dave do here?

Dave: Yeah. All right. So speaking of how to work, another thing. How do you approach one- on- ones?

DC: So one- on- ones are a thing which I think are super important, that everyone should have. And ideally, you should have your one- on- ones a couple times a month, if not from two to four times a month. And the one- on- one should be, not the manager's meeting, but the person who's one- on- one it is.

Dave: Can you say that part again?

DC: Yeah. It's not the managers meeting. It's not for the manager to come up with an agenda. It's not for the manager to ask a bunch of questions of the person who's one- on- one it is. It's your meeting as the individual. And it is for you to ask questions, highlight the areas that you're running into issues with, and talk about your own personal progression, and where you are along that progression. It's your meeting that you need to drive, and you need to own the agenda for, and not expect someone else to come in and own that agenda for you.

Dave: Right. I think I learned that the hard way in one of my first jobs. You just show up and I'm like, all right, so what are we talking about? And my boss was like, I don't know.

DC: I don't know. It's your meeting, dummy.

Dave: This is your meeting.

DC: Come on, dummy.

Dave: And the problem is, you can't say, oh, I don't have anything to talk about, so let's not have a meeting.

DC: Exactly. And it's not to talk about, what'd you do on the weekend? Or, what's going on? What are you doing tonight? Did you see this movie? Blah, blah, blah. It's not about that. You can do that any old time. That's not about a one- on- one. It's not talking about, what did you eat for lunch today? What did you have for breakfast? How are you feeling? You're feeling good?

Dave: So speaking of how to work. The same book, I love it because it has all these quotes, the Tim Ferriss book. He was talking to this guy.

DC: Don't avoid me, Tim.

Dave: Yeah, cage match. We're do it on pay- per- view. No, we'll make it free. It'll be free

DC: Free. Everything un-gated.

Dave: Un- gated cage match. So Scott Adams, he created this cartoon called Dilbert. But he had this great quote about, there's two paths to become amazing at something in your career. He said number one is, you can become the best at one very specific thing. Or two, which this was the eye- opening one for me, is that you can become very good at two or more things. And so this is something we ask everybody that comes and interviews. We say, what's your super power. I think this applies a lot to learning, and how you work, and what skills that you're acquiring. It's tough to go so deep on that one skill.

DC: I like that the two or more skills that he mentioned there because it's that combination that can superpower you. And that's what can make you unique. It's going to be hard to be the best in the world at a single thing. Lots of competition. But it's the intersection of maybe two totally unrelated things. Let's say marketing and design, and you combine those, and all of a sudden you have, like we talked about before, idea sex. And all of a sudden, you become the best at when it comes to marketing and design. Or you take product management and design, design or design management. You intersect those things and you become the best at that intersection.

Dave: I love it. All right, last point, this is where we're going to end. I think the one that we got the best response on, I think was episode we did called Carry the Water.

DC: What's that mean?

Dave: It basically means you have to put in the work in your career.

DC: Hard work?

Dave: Hard work is part of it.

DC: Okay.

Dave: Reps and sets, you might say, is also another part of it.

DC: DG, but what about smart work? What about working less? Working smarter, not harder?

Dave: Yeah, working smarter.

DC: Tell me about that.

Dave: That's cool to me.

DC: That's what every troll says. Oh, it's not just working hard. It's, you know, you got to work smart. Really?

Dave: That's right. I'm trying to do both. I mean, I don't understand.

DC: Yeah. Duh.

Dave: Also, there's a certain type of person who chimes in with that comment about working smarter and not harder.

DC: I know. I know exactly what kind.

Dave: But what about work- life balance?

DC: No, bro. Come on now.

Dave: So anyway, that's a quick rundown of a couple of the topics.

DC: Why do you think Carrying the Water was so popular?

Dave: Because nobody has said that out loud.

DC: Yeah.

Dave: I think something has happened in the last five, six years, where there is no longer a chain. Like, The Wire, great show we talk about all the time.

DC: Yeah, Chain of Command.

Dave: Chain of Command.

DC: Yeah.

Dave: But, because we live in this world today where everyone has an opportunity and everybody can do anything, that most of the people that are coming fresh out of college have the mentality that like, oh, because I can do anything, then there's no reason why I can't.

DC: Exactly. So I shared today on the Twitters.

Dave: Uh- oh. Get-

DC: Get ready. I shared this great, great video by Simon Sinek. What's up Simon. And we'll put it in the show notes of this episode. But it was basically around this very subject. Which about, I think he calls it millennials in the workforce, and blah, blah, blah, something like that. But he talked about this very thing, which is this carry the water and how we've set so many people up for this problem that we're running into as leaders of companies throughout the world today. Man, it's money.

Dave: I just feel like everybody, in their career, needs to have somebody who they're, not fearful of, but-

DC: Puts them in check.

Dave: Yeah. I think that's a good thing.

DC: You got to be put in check.

Dave: I think that teaches you how to work. I think it goes back, like, I had a boss who would red line every single one of my words. And I would spend two days writing it and he'd send it back to me. And it would be, like, no words. I would be like, great, I spent my whole week writing this thing.

DC: I think everyone, it doesn't have to do with work, I think every area of your life, you need to be put in check sometimes. And so you need to know what the boundaries are so that we can keep, without being put in check, there's no control to the ego. And we all need to control our ego and we need to understand how difficult some things are to do. So it's called Simon Sinek on Millennials in the Workplace. 1. 5 million views on the YouTube.

Dave: Did you watch this today?

DC: Amen. My wife sent it to me this morning.

Dave: She... why?

DC: That's how much of a G she is.

Dave: Why? What were you guys, must have been talking about?

DC: Nothing, no context. Just the link to it. So I just watch it.

Dave: I love it.

DC: That's how much of a G she is.

Dave: Yeah, of course.

DC: She keeps the uncle in check 24/7.

Dave: She was probably telling you something.

DC: Powerful. That's all I need to say, powerful.

Dave: What's the rundown?

DC: On this thing? He puts it in a more eloquent, Simon Sinek, wherever he's from, Australian, South Africa.

Dave: You just said carry the water.

DC: Yeah, carry the water. And he talks about, the important thing is why he believes we've gotten to this place and why we need to teach people about progression. And why you can't take a job and then, within eight months, have a crisis moment of, I'm not having enough impact in the world.

Dave: Or, I want to do something else.

DC: He said he would go into companies and he'd meet with different people. And they'd say, I think I want to leave. And he'd say, you've been here eight months. Why do you want to leave? I'm not having enough impact. And they'd say, impact is this word that people have been taught when everything would go their way. Everything was offered. When they always said that they can do anything in the world, and they can get anything and everything that they want. And so how do we get out of this? How do we teach this? How do we put a focus on progression? So Simon Sinek, check out that video, I'll have it in those show notes.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: Also, I want to talk about one thing.

Dave: Hit me, hit us.

DC: It's the 50th episode.

Dave: Yes.

DC: We're going into 2017 strong.

Dave: That's right.

DC: But the uncle's a little sad.

Dave: Uh- oh.

DC: You know why I'm a little sad?

Dave: I think I know why.

DC: All right. Here's why. I checked the iTunes.

Dave: Oh, no.

DC: And I had set a goal. Arbitrary goal. Most goals are arbitrary.

Dave: Oh, yeah.

DC: Inside, didn't tell anyone about this goal.

Dave: Those are the best.

DC: And said, let's try to end the year at 200 reviews.

Dave: What happened?

DC: I checked.

Dave: What was the number?

DC: 173.

Dave: No! I know. See, right now, I know that there's 27 people in the car.

DC: Who haven't left.

Dave: I know. You're listening to this, and they just thought to themselves, I haven't left a review yet.

DC: Attention, 27 people. It is December 27th now.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: We have time. If you guys-

Dave: We have the resources, we showed people how to do it. It's in the show.

DC: Okay, it's in the show notes. So let's go. Five star reviews. Let's hit 2017 hard, right between the eyes.

Dave: Yeah, don't make us bring out the Drift t- shirts and do the one for one again.

DC: Oh my God. Come on, man.

Dave: We might have to.

DC: 27 of you, if you can leave a five star review on iTunes before the 31st, we can end the year with 200 reviews strong.

Dave: Yep.

DC: Hit the goal, make the uncle feel good. By the way, I learned something.

Dave: What?

DC: Subscribe, if you haven't subscribed.

Dave: Oh, I saw that. You ran into a little-

DC: A little, I won't call him a troll, but you know-

Dave: A helpful gentleman.

DC: Helpful gentlemen who said rankings, star ratings don't matter. It's all about subscriptions. So I want both.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: Five star reviews and subscribe to the podcast, if you haven't already, so we can rise.

Dave: Subscribe. It's like skiing, but you don't have your boots clipped. Just pit it.

DC: Hit it, hit subscribe. It's free.

Dave: It's free.

DC: Isn't it? Do they have to pay for it?

Dave: No, this is a free podcast.

DC: Oh. If they hit subscribe, do they have to pay?

Dave: No.

DC: Okay. So why didn't they hit subscribe?

Dave: I'm not sure.

DC: Okay. Well, we'll think about that.

Dave: Look, in the future, when Drift is massive, and we have time, we'll build our own podcasting software.

DC: Yeah.

Dave: Because of it's too difficult right now. But just press the button.

DC: Press a button, subscribe, five star review. We only need 27 more reviews to cross over and be 200 at the end of this year. Come on!

Dave: I could go stand outside tonight and just wave people down

DC: crosstalk For all the value we're giving out. All the secrets the uncle's leaking out on this show.

Dave: Yeah. I mean, we've given away so many books to the fans. If you've received a book from us and you have not-

DC: Wait, you think they might have now left a five star review?

Dave: We gave out so many books this year that I honestly. We gave away, I would say, at least 50 books this year.

DC: Minimum.

Dave: Minimum.

DC: Minimum.

Dave: And some of those books were expensive.

DC: Yeah.

Dave: Like, hard cover. Shoe Dog hard cover. That's a$ 30 book.

DC: All right.

Dave: Damn.

DC: Damn. Taking care of people. Five star review. 27 of you is all we need. Why don't we go more? Let's go 30. Let's just be safe.

Dave: Yeah.

DC: 30 of you, leave at five star review. Let's go.

Dave: We got factor in churn.

DC: All right. That's it. I hope you have a great 2017. We're going to be here strong. Next year we'll be twice as good as this year. We just need you to hook us up.

Dave: Peace.

DC: Peace. Hit it, hit subscribe. It's free.

Dave: It's free.

DC: Isn't it? Do that to pay for it?

Dave: No, this is a free podcast.


If you liked this episode, we bet that you’ll love our blog content. blog.drift.com/#subscribe Subscribe to never miss a post & join the 20,000+ other pros committed to getting better every day. --- Looking back on 2016 and the first year of Seeking Wisdom (including the impact the podcast has had on our business at Drift). We thought we'd end 2016 and kickoff 2017 by going back through some of the key lessons from the past year, including: - How a modern product team should work. - How to become a learning machine. - The power of learning from others. - Why you need role models. - Innovation, not invention. - The secret to running effective 1:1 meetings. - The art of managing up. - Advice for recent grads/millenials: you need to carry the water. Here's a link to the Simon Sinek video David mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU Two Ways To Support The Show 1. Subscribe. 2. Leave us a five-star review. Here's how: bit.ly/5-Stars-Only Connect With Us Follow David (twitter.com/dcancel) and Dave (twitter.com/davegerhardt) on Twitter. Come hang out with us on Twitter @seekingwisdomio. Learn more about Drift at Drift.com.