#122: Comfort Is The Enemy Of Growth

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This is a podcast episode titled, #122: Comfort Is The Enemy Of Growth. The summary for this episode is: Today on Seeking Wisdom we're talking about the relationship between comfort and growth. -- Get something out of this episode? Leave a 6-star review on Apple Podcasts. If you're a fan of the show we would LOVE you to join us at HYPERGROWTH -- our annual conference at Drift. Tuesday 9/4 in Boston and Monday 9/24 in SF. You can get your tickets at hypergrowth.drift.com with the promo code SEEKINGWISDOM for just $199 -- and that is the lowest price on the Internet just for SW fans.

David Cancel: And we're back. This is David Cancel, and you're listening to the Seeking Wisdom podcast. Over here, listen to that music, listen, nod your head. Over here, in front of me is the young nephew, DG, aka Dave Gerhardt. He just got a beating. It's good for him.

Dave Gerhardt: A beating.

David Cancel: Nothing he could say would make me happier.

Dave Gerhardt: So sorry if I'm low energy for one second, I just got a beating. I walked out of an hour long beating. It wasn't from DC.

David Cancel: Not me, my hands are clean.

Dave Gerhardt: So anyway, we're back. I'm excited. This is the official, official, official, official last podcast in this office. The room is feeling real empty.

David Cancel: Yeah, if you hear an echo, if you hear us echoing, it's because all the shelves are now empty. Everything's packed in boxes, we're ready to move.

Dave Gerhardt: We have no lights, we have nothing today. This is like two years ago Seeking Wisdom, this is OG Seeking Wisdom. This is when there was no listeners.

David Cancel: Okay, this is for the old G, the old gangster listeners who are listening right now. We're taking it back.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. So you know what? I actually, I wanted to just do one where I didn't have any prep notes with you, but I just thought of the topic.

David Cancel: What?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, yeah. Because I thought of the topic, which is actually, I just got a beating, okay?

David Cancel: Yes. Who gave you that beating?

Dave Gerhardt: Mike Volpi.

David Cancel: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt: Shout out to you, Mike. Love you, still love you.

David Cancel: He's in shock, Mike, he's stuttering now.

Dave Gerhardt: It was nice. It was a good beating. But you have this mindset, right? And I think you've started to retrain my mindset a little bit, where I used to get... Would be defensive, right? You're in those meetings taking a beating from somebody and you get defensive.

David Cancel: How does growth feel, man?

Dave Gerhardt: Exactly. So this is what I want to talk about. I want to talk about, we can call this how growth really feels, right? How growth really feels.

David Cancel: I wish I could take a picture of DG's face right now, just to show you.

Dave Gerhardt: But I want to accelerate Seeking Wisdom, our job is to accelerate other people's learning. So I want to try to get this out of you and explain this mindset. Because it takes a while, it takes a while. But it's something that I've seen you do, I've seen Elias do. I know you had to beat on him for a couple of years.

David Cancel: A decade.

Dave Gerhardt: A decade for him to turn around. But I think this could be a really valuable episode in explaining how you think through that, and the whole mantra of, don't get defensive, it's an opportunity. So I want to kick it over to you and just talk about that.

David Cancel: Sure. So the way I always talk about it on here is that growth is not supposed to feel comfortable, right? That's an easy, theoretical thing to say when you abstract it out and you think about," Oh yeah, I get it. It's not supposed to feel comfortable." But when you're actually going through and you're getting feedback, and you're feeling like you're getting beat up, you're feeling like you're under attack, your natural thing is either to pull away and not listen or to get defensive and to fight back, right? This says nothing about you, this is just a natural thing, right? When someone's coming at you, you're not going to listen to them. You going to put the shields up, you're going to fight back, or you're going to run away, right? It's fight or flight. And the thing that I've painfully figured out over the years is that that is the exact moment. When you're getting feedback, and this is the qualifier, from someone that you respect and someone that you trust, trust is the key.

Dave Gerhardt: So this does not count for the internet trolls.

David Cancel: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I listen to them too, because I like it. They gave me a different kind of energy, the haters out there. No, when you're listening, getting feedback from someone that you trust and that you respect, right? From a mentor, from a peer, from a role model, it's not going to feel good. You're not going to want to hear it. You're going to want to get defensive. You're going to want to do what Elias did for half a decade, which was to explain himself to try to convince you and say," No, no, no, you're not getting it. I'm just going to... Let me tell you why you're wrong." And to fight back that way. Instead, that is the exact magic moment that you need to sit there and absorb it, and listen, and not say anything, right? And just hold it in, it's so hard.

Dave Gerhardt: Take notes.

David Cancel: And take notes, take notes and and feel it, and absorb it. And then step away from it, detach yourself from it, to be able to learn the lessons that someone is trying to pass down to you.

Dave Gerhardt: So if you were me in this situation right now, I got a bunch of notes, would you let it marinate the rest of today? Sleep on it. Don't do it now.

David Cancel: Major key, as DJ Khaled would say.

Dave Gerhardt: Major key.

David Cancel: Major key is sleep on it, don't take immediate action, because you don't know what you're taking immediate action on.

Dave Gerhardt: Because you're still in the heat. It's an emotional thing. You're still in the heat of it.

David Cancel: You're still in the heat. You don't know what to do. You don't want to be reactionary. You don't want it to be a delayed reaction, just you fighting back, you just taking action, right, and doing it when you have that emotional energy. Let it marinate, sleep on it, and then try to figure out, why you were getting the feedback you were getting? Where was that feedback coming from? Was that perspective correct, right? Could you see that person's perspective? And then, only then, develop a plan for how you can take some of this feedback and take action on it. Sometimes you'll get this feedback and you won't know how to take action on it, and you might have to get it again a year from now and again six months from now, and then you'll be able to take action. But in this case, where DG just got a beating from Mike Volpi, thank you. Shout out.

Dave Gerhardt: Sent in the hitter.

David Cancel: Yep. He's giving you very tactical feedback, right? This is not just-

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, it's not a philosophical or should we do this thing or that thing.

David Cancel: No, or it's not about how should change as a leader, it's more real tactical feedback. In that case, I think tomorrow you could look at that and say," All right, here's how I could think about using some of the stuff." And some of it might not be useful.

Dave Gerhardt: Or a trick that I've learned from you, which is I might have a list of 10 things that he gave us right now, right, but we can't do all 10, we can't do all 10. But tomorrow I'm going to wake up and I'm going to know one or two things that we should do, right? What are the big rocks out of that? So now I could be emotional, I could," We got to go to all 10. We got to change everything. We got to do this," right? But tomorrow I'll be at the gym, when my subconscious is there, it'll be clear what's a one thing you got to come do with that.

David Cancel: You made me think of that when you said the gym. I have this old CrossFit- related screenshot on one of my iPads. I forgot that it was there. Saw it the other day, and it basically shows someone doing burpees in a box and somewhere in this CrossFit box, aka gym, there's a sign that says," The beatings will continue until there is progress."

Dave Gerhardt: Wow. I love that. That's so true.

David Cancel: That sums it up. If I find the image, we'll pull it up.

Dave Gerhardt: That's true. And actually, I get more concerned if I'm not getting those beatings. Because then it's like, whoa, the people who should be giving them to me either don't care, or what I'm doing isn't impactful enough where people care enough to give you beatings on it, right?

David Cancel: Exactly, exactly. So you need that feedback. It's not comfortable, as we've always said. You got to lean into it. Maybe the 51st time that you've heard this here on the Seeking Wisdom podcast, it will sink in into your head. It will get into your thick skull. My skull's stick, it's taken me years for it to get in. But the reason that we talk about this, where we repeat, it's because it's the simple things, man. We overcomplicate life. This thing is simple. Business is simple. Life is simple. But we overcomplicate it, we overanalyze, we overtalk about it. It's simple.

Dave Gerhardt: It's simple. And if you think of what happened, I'm in a situation where he was 10 years ago. He's already seen this story. And so if you think about a qualifier, shit, well who better do I have than to listen to this guy, right? And so I think that is the key on the feedback piece, which is it's going to hurt, but if it's from somebody who's already seen the story and had done it before, how can you not be open to hearing that? How can you not be open to taking those lessons?

David Cancel: Exactly. He's been there, and the context has changed, but he has experience from having been there. I was listening to a magical speech by the great coach of Notre Dame, ex- coach, Lou Holtz. And Lou Holtz, look him up, you will thank me later. Get a little YouTube clip on him giving a commencement sheet. And he was saying-

Dave Gerhardt: How did you find that, by the way?

David Cancel: Jim Kelliher, our CFO, sent it to me the other day in the morning.

Dave Gerhardt: On the internet?

David Cancel: Yeah, yeah, he loves the Fighting Irish, he's super Irish.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, I could see him being-

David Cancel: He's the mayor of Ireland, he's the mayor of Ireland, and he was quoting from there. And he was saying, he sent me a quote that said,"You're either growing or you're dying," which is something that Lou Holtz says. Which I love, I should get that tattooed across my back.

Dave Gerhardt: You're either growing or you're dying.

David Cancel: Growing or you're dying. He's like," It's that simple." It's like everything else in life. The plant is either growing or it's dying. The grass is growing or it's dying. The person is growing or is dying. There's no such thing as standing still, that's fiction, right? You either growing or you're dying, that's it. And he was talking, Lou Holtz was talking about, and I'll get back to where we got to here, but Lou Holtz was talking about that he had retired. He had done something that had never been done before at Notre Dame. And that is for nine seasons straight he took that team to all the Bowls, the Fiesta Bowl, the Orange Bowl, every bowl in the world. And that had never been accomplished before Lou Holtz, and it has never been accomplished since Lou Holtz. And he said the number one regret in life that he had, he's only had one regret in his life that haunts him to this day, was that when they got to that winning streak of nine, that they stopped.

Dave Gerhardt: He let off the gas.

David Cancel: He let off the gas. And he said he retired. And he said he still regrets to this day, because he said," Either growing or you're dying, and we were dying. Because we just wanted to preserve, we just wanted to keep the winning streak alive. And we were not willing to take chances, we were not willing to grow, and that's when we started to die. And I look back at that every day now and say that was the biggest mistake in my life." So you're either growing or you're dying, Lou Holtz said. But Lou Holtz also says in that speech, he talks about that it's simple. Don't overcomplicate, right? He talks about being nice to people. He talks about having trust. He talks about commitment. He talks about family. He says it's simple, right? It's very simple. Stop overcomplicating this stuff. Stop reading a bunch of nonsense. Read the good stuff only. Listen to Lou Holtz, you'll thank me later. Send me a thank you note in the form of six- star review only.

Dave Gerhardt: I don't know how to... Where do we go from that? That's why we do this podcast, that's everything. But I also think the feedback thing ties back into the mantra that we have, which is, always be learning, right? What do you want? Oh, he's texting me. DC's had me look at my phone. What do you need? What are you looking at?

David Cancel: A cucumber.

Dave Gerhardt: Okay. DC, he has my-

David Cancel: This is shady, right?

Dave Gerhardt: He has my phone up right now, which is fine. But I was going to say that he kept pointing at me. I thought he was going to read this paper, which is this special Seeking Wisdom promo that I was going to show you. But it goes back to the mantra that we talk about on Seeking Wisdom, which is, always be learning. And if you're not always learning, the best way for me that I find out to learn has been to get the hard feedback from everybody else. DC is looking for some magical quote. I'm trying to think about what he could be looking for right now.

David Cancel: I'm looking for that Lou Holtz quote here.

Dave Gerhardt: I know you are. I thought you're going to find something else.

David Cancel: No, I'm looking for that Lou Holtz quote.

Dave Gerhardt: Did you find it?

David Cancel: It's called The Most Powerful Speech: The 3 Rules to a Less Complicated Life, Lou Holtz, H- O- L- T- Z. That's on YouTube. You all listening to this owe me something for turning you onto this, because this is as good as it gets. This is gold. And this man here, he's a hero.

Dave Gerhardt: He found it.

David Cancel: I found it. All right. I won't play the speech, but you go open YouTube right after this, after you leave six stars.

Dave Gerhardt: I'll put a link in it, put a link to it. So commitment...

David Cancel: Commitment, trust, goals.

Dave Gerhardt: Wow, this hasn't even been watched that many times. There's gold out there waiting for everybody.

David Cancel: I give the people the gold here.

Dave Gerhardt: You sure do.

David Cancel: I just give and give and give and give, and all I ask for is that six- star review.

Dave Gerhardt: That's it.

David Cancel: But everybody holds back.

Dave Gerhardt: That's easy. Who will be the 500th?

David Cancel: I don't know. You know what they have? You know what the listeners have?

Dave Gerhardt: What?

David Cancel: Excuses. You know what else they have? Something I like to call alligator arms.

Dave Gerhardt: Oh, they can't...

David Cancel: See, if you think about a T. rex, you think about a T. rex dinosaur, an alligator, they have short hands. So their hands are so short they can't reach the keyboard and type six stars.

Dave Gerhardt: Actually, you can do it all from mobile. So even if you have alligator arms, you should be good.

David Cancel: You could probably Siri this thing.

Dave Gerhardt: You should. You should be able to grab it with the short arms.

David Cancel: Siri doesn't work, but maybe it works in this case and you can leave a six- star review.

Dave Gerhardt: Right. So yesterday I came to DC, I said," I want to give the Seeking Wisdom community an offer. I want to give them something amazing," okay? Selfishly, there's something in it for me. And number one is the thing that is amazing about a podcast is the connection that we have. The thing that has been frustrating about a podcast is we actually have no way to continue. The Seeking Wisdom is a one- way conversation, unfortunately. We don't have a way to have conversations with our listeners. And since we're all about conversations-

David Cancel: There's no Drift in-

Dave Gerhardt: There's no Drift in Apple Podcasts. Another knock.

David Cancel: Yeah. No six- star reviews, no Drift podcasts in Apple Podcasts.

Dave Gerhardt: So there's no way for us to actually have conversations with you all. So I want you to do me a favor and I want you to email seekingwisdom @ drift. com, right? And if you want to be in the know, and get the latest and greatest from us, and we have a whole bunch of new shows dropping, you're going to go there, seekingwisdom @ drift. com. Just say," I'm in", right? Email me," I'm in." But that's not the offer. DC hit me with an offer. He said,"Yeah, that's cool, that's cool. You could get people's email address, right? You could email them." But he said," I want to pick 25 people, exclusive." We're going to pick 25 people. So if you email seekingwisdom @drift.com-

David Cancel: Of those people.

Dave Gerhardt: Of the people who email seekingwisdom @ drift. com, we're going to pick 25 of them, and we're going to do a private 30 minute Zoom call with DC and I.

David Cancel: With me?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, private.

David Cancel: Okay, this crew better step out.

Dave Gerhardt: Private. This is like a coaching session, okay? No agenda. It will be all questions.

David Cancel: When you think of value, MSRP value on this, this is at least 25 grand for me and five grand from the nephew.

Dave Gerhardt: Oh, I'm good with that, five grand. So 30 grand?

David Cancel: This is 30 grand value that we're giving you, easy, easy.

Dave Gerhardt: We can charge 30 grand for this.

David Cancel: So we're giving you a 30 grand value, 25 and five.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, 30 grand value for emailing seekingwisdom @ drift. com. We're going to do it, okay? It's going to be on Zoom. And you're only going to be able to see it, you're only going to be able to-

David Cancel: Shout out to our brothers at Zoom.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, that's a good shout out. You're only going to be able to see it, though, if you're one of the 25. That's either live or recording. This is not something that we're going to take-

David Cancel: How do we pick those 25? Random?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, we're going to randomly pick, okay? Because we want everybody to do it. This is not something we're going to take the content and reuse it later. This is literally if you all could be here in person, we'd do it in person. But we have a global audience, so we're going to do it Zoom call. We're going to sit in our new office on a couch, Zoom call, whatever you guys want to talk about. Anything you want to ask. But you came with one deeper.

David Cancel: I always boost it up.

Dave Gerhardt: So that's 25 people. For two of those people, do you remember what we're going to do?

David Cancel: Yeah, so for two of those people... So every time we come up with something, I got to raise it up. I think-

Dave Gerhardt: Yesterday, I guess I said it was a bomb and DC said," No." He said," That's a..." What'd you call it, a level up?

David Cancel: Yeah, yeah. He's like," DC drop some more bombs." I said that I don't drop bombs, I drop a level up. These are called power ups.

Dave Gerhardt: They're called power ups, he says it's a power up.

David Cancel: It's a power up pill.

Dave Gerhardt: Okay, so-

David Cancel: So what I said was," Okay, that's good enough. 25, even though we're giving them 30 grand in value, each of them times 25."

Dave Gerhardt: So my idea was okay.

David Cancel: We're giving away 75... Nope, how much is that? How many people? 25?

Dave Gerhardt: 25.

David Cancel: We're giving$750, 000 of value away like that, almost a million dollars.

Dave Gerhardt: That's good math, man. It's pretty good.

David Cancel: But, I said," Let's level it up even more." And what we're going to do is we're going to pick how many? Two?

Dave Gerhardt: Two.

David Cancel: We're going to pick two people out of the number of the people who subscribed.

Dave Gerhardt: Pull over.

David Cancel: Pull over now, subscribe. And we're going to pick two of you. And no matter where you are in the world, we are going to fly both of you to HYPERGROWTH, either Boston, San Francisco, you choose. But, it gets even better, because I always up them goals. It gets even better.

Dave Gerhardt: Is it paying for a flight, all access?

David Cancel: Yeah, we're going to pay for the flight. We're going to pay for the ticket. We're going to bring you here. But, we are going to give you a special gold VIP badge. And you know what that's going to give you access to?

Dave Gerhardt: I have a feeling.

David Cancel: You're going to get to hang out in the back of HYPERGROWTH with the speakers.

Dave Gerhardt: Come on.

David Cancel: We don't even sell that.

Dave Gerhardt: I don't even get to do that. I'm putting the damn conference together.

David Cancel: No, we don't even sell that. We won't even sell that with a$ 10,000 ticket, all right? So between that and the 750 we're giving out, I can safely say we're giving away a million dollars in value today. And all we ask is go sign up for that email, then leave a six- star review.

Dave Gerhardt: Picture yourself sipping a latte in the lounge with just some of the-

David Cancel: With Jocko.

Dave Gerhardt: Next to Jocko, some pretty damn famous people that I'm not going to tell you about yet.

David Cancel: Yeah, we can't announce them yet. We've only announced six of them right now so far, but the list is deep. You're going to be VIP in the back. Drift team members won't have VIP badges.

Dave Gerhardt: No, they won't. They will not be able to go back there.

David Cancel: DG doesn't even have a VIP badge.

Dave Gerhardt: I don't have that. I just tell them," Go over there." I don't get to go there. All you have to do, email seekingwisdom @drift.com. That is all possible.

David Cancel: That is it. All right.

Dave Gerhardt: What's the sticker value on that?

David Cancel: I don't know.

Dave Gerhardt: We're giving away a million dollars' worth of gifts.

David Cancel: A million dollars' worth of gifts today on Seeking Wisdom. All you need to do is drop your little email, send a little email over to...

Dave Gerhardt: seekingwisdom @ drift. com.

David Cancel: ...@ drift. com, done. All right.

Dave Gerhardt: All right.

David Cancel: Don't forget the six- star review, I'm watching.

Dave Gerhardt: We're out of here.


Today on Seeking Wisdom we're talking about the relationship between comfort and growth. -- Get something out of this episode? Leave a 6-star review on Apple Podcasts. If you're a fan of the show we would LOVE you to join us at HYPERGROWTH -- our annual conference at Drift. Tuesday 9/4 in Boston and Monday 9/24 in SF. You can get your tickets at hypergrowth.drift.com with the promo code SEEKINGWISDOM for just $199 -- and that is the lowest price on the Internet just for SW fans.