#marketing The $4.6B Lead Engagement Problem (And The 2018 Drift Lead Response Report)
Dave: All right. What's up everybody? We are back for another episode of America's fastest growing podcast, Marketing Monday on Seeking Wisdom. And I have with me a very, very special guest, her first appearance on Marketing Monday, Sonja Jacob, not to be confused with Sonja Jacob, or Sonja Jacbo, it is Sonja Jacob. Sonja, thank you so much for coming on.
Sonja Jacob: Hey, Dave. Yeah, thank you for the amazing intro. Crosstalk people by spelling my name.
Dave: Which is funny because... Yes.
Sonja Jacob: Very much, I appreciate it.
Dave: We talk all day, so it's weird interviewing you, crosstalk but you are here for a very specific reason, because last week we published a new report where we went out. And we basically, we went out, and we looked at 500 of the fastest growing B2B companies out there. And we wanted to see are they actually following up with their leads? That's what I want to talk to you about, but I don't want to steal the whole thing. So let's rewind back and talk about what is this report, and what did you learn from it?
Sonja Jacob: Yeah, absolutely. So the drift lead response report is something that I've been working on for a couple of weeks, but it's really a follow- up to this broader discussion about the response. It was kind of kicked off a few years back in 2011 HBR, Harvard Business Review published the findings of a study that was done by a bunch of academics, that basically said that five minutes is this ideal time during which companies need to reach out to their leads. And if you miss that window, you're screwed. You can't reach out to them, they're gone forever. So we wanted to follow up on that finding and see if businesses were actually doing any better today, in 2018, versus back in 2011.
Dave: You know what I love to do? Whenever we talk about this, we've talked about a lot, but I love to say, so the sweet spot that they found was five minutes, right? And then it's like it's kind of obvious, but if you think about five minutes, so if right now if I said," Just think about how long five minutes is." I'm going to pause and take a drink of my water right now.
Sonja Jacob: Excellent, I'll do the same.
Dave: You're like," Oh my god, that was five seconds, right? And it felt like an eternity, and it was awkward."
Sonja Jacob: crosstalk.
Dave: S imagine sitting on somebody's website for five minutes, or waiting for somebody to respond. And what's funny is this stat is something that people know. I mean, it's great that Harvard Business Review published it, because it makes it more credible, but I think if you told anybody," Hey, the quicker that you follow up with leads, the more likely they are to respond, because that's how you and I buy." I would never go to somebody's website and wait, or if I go there, I'm there for a reason, so I don't want to wait to hear back," Hey, I'm on your... I'm trying to talk to you right now."
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. That's the thing. And the other huge part of it is that we're all spending billions of dollars to get people to come our website. And one of the things that we point out in the report is that we're actually spending$ 4. 6 billion to tell people about our products.
Dave: It's crazy.
Sonja Jacob: But when people come to our site, we're not making use of them, by far.
Dave: Yeah. And I love that because it's one of those things, like you talk to a CFO or talk to somebody else, we're spending, literally, you're spending all of, whether it's people or budget, you're spending all of your money with the goal of getting somebody to your website. And this is, I mean, you and I are marketers, and this is what keeps us up at night, right? Which is we do our job. Okay, think that thing about our job. Our job is to get people to our website, it's like our store.
Sonja Jacob: Right.
Dave: Drift. com is like our store. So our job is to get people there, but then once we actually get them there, we just let people kind of wander on their own and then leave. That's what this is the equivalent of, which is crazy.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah, absolutely. And the thing that was really, really astonishing with this report was that 58% of companies just never responded to us at all. So more than half of companies who got pinged by a lead during our experiment, they did not respond at all, no follow- up.
Dave: And which is how many... This is Marketing Monday, obviously, so it's a lot of marketing people listening, but how many times have you been in that discussion with sales?" Hey, we need more leads." And you're like," Wait a second. Do you need more leads, or are we not following up with the ones that we're actually bringing in?"
Sonja Jacob: Absolutely. And I think the biggest question, the thing that jumped out at me is that we have this very real opportunity to engage with prospects in real time. And email is obviously great for that. But I think you walk... There's a delicate balance, right? You do want to automate the process a little bit, so that you send out that quick response if someone says," Yes, please contact me via email." But the flip side of that is that you then introduce all these other variables that can change, and can be influenced by other factors. But besides that, only 15% of companies actually have live chat on their site. So most companies are just totally missing the boat, missing the opportunity when it comes to actually engaging with people one-to- one instantaneously inaudible.
Dave: Yeah. I have a silly question. So you've been at Drift for a couple of months, you've done marketing at a bunch of really interesting companies. Don't you think though that there's been... Okay, I know a lot of people are agreeing, or like," Yeah, I get it. People aren't responding to leads in real time," but they don't want to... Everybody has tried. And I don't want to make this like a drift commercial, but everybody has tried live chat in marketing, and most of the people that we talked to though like," Yeah, it didn't work for us." Did you have an experience with it before? Just if you take off your... Step back from the lead response survey for a minute, did you have to use it before in another job?
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. So I actually implemented Drift. This is not a Drift ad. I implemented Drift at my last company. And I think there was just so much opposition to the idea of live chat based on what people's perception of live chat was based on their experience years ago. And I think people worry about a lot of different things, but one of the biggest ones is," Who am I going to use to staff live chat? How do I actually scale this internally?" But I think, and those are all valid questions because nobody has any time today. People are operating with very few resources, but the idea is that live chat, it's not even live chat anymore. This is real time messaging. This is using chat, intelligent chat, to drive sales conversations. And so I think what people have to realize is that you have these salespeople who are your resource, you can move them further up into the buying process and get them on chat. And I think that's crosstalk.
Dave: I love the distinction between live chat and real- time messaging, because that's the thing that we're used to in real life. Like you and I when we talk a bunch are like," What happens when I can't find you, you can't find me, or we're supposed to chat?" You text me. We text each other like," Hey, I'm running five minutes late." And that's how we all expect to communicate, but then something breaks down where we're as a business you're like," Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. I can't possibly talk to the people who are interested in my business in real time. I don't want that."
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. There's a ton of apprehension around that. I think people have this... And here's the fundamental difference, okay. So I bring this up a little bit in the report. People are scared that if they move salespeople up further into that buying process, that something's going to happen, and that's going to be that they're going to put off the potential buyer. But I think what really needs to be fixed in this specific scenario is not getting rid of live chat and never having prospects talk to sales reps, it's rethinking how we actually do sales. And that's why obviously we're big proponents of conversational selling, conversational sales as a broader movement, but forget all of that terminology, it's just a much more practical, modern way of talking to people about solving their business challenges. Conversational sales is not a buzzword, it's actually meeting the buyer wherever he or she is in a way that matches how they live and shop in the rest of their life experiences. inaudible.
Dave: Yeah, yep.
Sonja Jacob: They get an answer to a question, it's the same thing with the sales process. It should have that same level of intimacy crosstalk.
Dave: Amen. Okay. So, all right. So you hit me with one stat, I don't actually remember the other ones off the top of my head. So that was 58% of people didn't respond at all.
Sonja Jacob: crosstalk.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah, crosstalk.
Dave: Let's hit people with the others. Yeah.
Sonja Jacob: So I'll just give you a quick overview. So 58% of the companies that we contacted just ghosted us, they never responded at all, which was shocking, to be honest.
Dave: Hey, do you want to repeat that section again? Because we might've just dropped out. So, Sonja, hit me with some of the other stats.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah.
Dave: We had the 58% one, but what else did you find?
Sonja Jacob: Yep. So we found that 90% of all companies that we contacted just didn't respond in under five minutes. And that means that basically there's just been no improvement in the last couple of years. And so people are really just not using the tools that they have at their fingertips. So only 15% of companies have live chat on their site. That's an easy way to solve that five minute engagement challenge that a lot of companies are faced with. And I think overall, that's where people need to do better, that's where they need to double down and focus their time.
Dave: I agree. I mean, I just think the biggest shift is people today, you and I, the way that we buy is I can find out everything about your company without ever having to talk to anybody on your team. And so this makes businesses uncomfortable though is because the reason lead forms and gated content and all that stuff is this is because they wanted to control the lead flow, right? Control the process of who they're talking to, who's coming to their website, blah, blah, blah. And so people are nervous because they're like," Wait, I don't want to give up the keys. I want to control this." But as a business, you have to give away control to customer say, because your customers have all the power. If somebody comes to our website, and they can't find what they want, what are they going to do? They're going to go to Google and type in" Drift alternative," and probably find one of our competitors, and go with them. But I think people are just nervous to shift, to give away the keys. But the disconnect to me is that people are frustrated. They're tired of the traditional way of doing it. They're frustrated with the results, but they're a little bit afraid to make a change.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. I think there are actually a lot of marketers. I mean, and just going back to your question earlier about implementing real- time messaging and what my experiences were, I think that people are afraid to break their practices. They've committed to a certain way of doing things, and they don't want to deviate from it. There's too much risk involved. So even if it's not performing really well for them, even though say they have forms up on their site, right? And they feel like they're just not performing. They're not driving leads. We're not getting to people fast enough. So many marketers are reluctant to actually take down that form, even though something else might work way better, like real- time messaging. I think that's really crosstalk right there.
Dave: Exactly. All right. Hit me with the wrap up. I mean, the big one to me was the fact that 90% of people didn't hit the five minute window. It's less about leads being left. Obviously, people are going to mislead. They're going to be left behind, but the fact that within five minutes, you're not hearing from somebody, that that's the one that keeps me up at night.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. Absolutely. I guess one thing I really I feel is important because we don't really talk about it in these terms, but there's something happening, like B2B has always been behind B2C. B2C moves faster, you can scale it quicker, the numbers are bigger, the volume is there, right? But I think what we're seeing now is this very real shift where consumers who shop on B2C sites, and I mentioned this in the report, Sephora, Amazon, Nordstrom, they all go, and they shop there, and they have outstanding experiences, right? And so they then come into the B2B world, and they're trying to buy some software for their business, and they're hit with this arcane process. And now they're saying," I don't want to do it that way. I want to do it how I do it everywhere else in my life." And I think that's the massive shift that everyone needs to walk away from the Lead Response Report with, is that we need to change now, or we put ourselves in a terrible position as marketers later.
Dave: I feel like you have to run for president now. You went out, you exposed all this stuff. Now you have no choice. You need to go lead this change.
Sonja Jacob: It's going to happen. I want to inaudible.
Sonja Jacob: The mass consumerization of B2B is happening and people just need to pay attention to it.
Dave: Yeah. I love it. You didn't even drop business to human on this. You're supposed to talk about that. I love that.
Sonja Jacob: Yeah. I mean, I'm mixing it up. I just want to be plain spoken and simple crosstalk.
Dave: Good. All right. And when you guys did this, you actually you built a cool resource that has actually taken off in the last week. Do you want to plug that real quick?
Sonja Jacob: Yes, yes, yes. So it's one thing to tell everyone that they really need to figure out their response time, their lead response time.
Sonja Jacob: It's one thing to tell them that. So we decided to actually take it a step further, and my teammates on the growth side built this amazing site, getmyresponsetime. com, where companies can actually go in, plug in their information, and they will get a report that says how quickly they respond to leads instantaneously. So go there, getmyresponsetime. com, put in your domain, figure out how you're doing, and then prepare to step up your game.
Dave: Love it, go check it out. We've learned a lot from that over the last week, but so that's the deal. That is the rundown of the Lead Response Survey. But this is a quick episode, but this is a long- term thing. We wanted to launch this because this is the big problem that we're seeing out in the market today in the marketing world is that people are not ready to go have real time conversations with their customers, even though all the data is telling them that they should do it.
Sonja Jacob: We have to get ready.
Dave: So if you take one thing out from this 15 minute episode of Marketing Monday, go check that out. Go and think that, go plug in your URL on getmyresponsetime. com, and check it out. But more importantly, I need you to tweet. I think I need a lot of tweets that say," We want Sonja back on Marketing Mondays. We want more Sonja." And she has a pretty good Twitter handle, which is @ Sonja, which is pretty good.
Sonja Jacob: It is a pretty good inaudible. Early adopted inaudible.
Sonja Jacob: crosstalk show me some love.
Dave: All right. Well, Sonja, thank you for coming on. Make sure if you're listening, go and leave. Go and tweet at Sonja, let her know you heard her on Marketing Monday, and go and leave a six star review only, because Marketing Monday is part of Seeking Wisdom, so this is a really important call to action.
Sonja Jacob: inaudible. Thank you.
Dave: Peace, Sonya.
Sonja Jacob: Bye.