#119: Super Bowl Champion & 7-Time New England Patriots Captain Jerod Mayo
DG: Okay, so we're here with Jerod Mayo. We have so much to talk about. But right into this, he goes, " Wait, you guys don't usually let Elias on the podcast."
DG: Explain that.
DC: No. He's only been on it once before, I think. crosstalk
DG: You're good.
DC: All right. Once before, I think. Yeah.
Elias: No, no. I done two.
DC: You had great energy though.
DG: Okay, one time. Do you know-
DC: The energy will radiate through the call.
DC: Might be too much energy, both those times.
DG: They're good. They're Yin and Yang, as founders. Because you have the extrovert and the introvert, it's perfect. But you know who Jocko is?
DC: I do know. I know Jocko.
DG: Do you know the story?
DC: What story? Oh, I do know the Jocko story.
DG: You do.
Elias: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
DC: You told me the Jocko story.
DG: So that was the only time Elias has come on the pod. Elias had no idea who Jocko was. DC sends him on a plane to Austin. He's up at 4: 00 in the morning doing burpees with Jocko.
Elias: Jocko has great energy, man.
DC: Oh, yeah. I like it.
DG: So the day he came back from that, we had him on Seeking Wisdom to explain what he learned at Jocko. But ever since then-
DC: It's fun equals freedom.
Jerod: There you go.
DC: There you go.
DG: Every day, 4: 44. Not anymore though.
Elias: Not anymore. I got to get back. But doesn't matter how many times you fail, as long as you get back on it.
DG: You're right.
DC: Please hold him accountable.
Jerod: You getting back on?
DC: I'm getting back on it.
Jerod: So you're not back on now?
Elias: No, I'm not back on it right now.
Jerod: Come on, don't embarrass yourself.
Elias: I'm running every day right now.
Jerod: It was never disciplined though. From my perspective, it's more motivation. You were motivated when you left. And motivation is crosstalk.
Elias: Oh, no. You changed my life.
Elias: Totally has changed my life. I wake up right now every day, I'm doing Sean Kenney said, " Elias, I'm running a mile every day."
DC: All right.
Elias: After the marathon, I'm in the rain with my son running. It was amazing. Because I have to do it everyday. I can't fail.
Jerod: If you get off the wagon, it's hard to get back on.
DG: Well, are you on the wagon right now? What are you doing
Jerod: I'm on the wagon, so my diet's easy. It's not even a diet, it's a lifestyle. So it's meat, vegetables, nuts, sometimes fruit, never sugar. I don't beer. I only drink straight liquor. Tequila, vodka preferably.
Elias: Straight? Whoo! Let's get it. Get the tequila out.
DG: You can have one. Elias has a world- famous margarita. Because my guess is even in college, you ate good, but probably not as good as you eat now.
Jerod: Yeah, I ate well. The training table, I picked up 30 pounds my freshmen year, so I didn't eat growing up.
DG: Wait, how much did you weigh going into college?
Jerod: I was 205.
DG: So 235 after first year?
Jerod: Yeah, I was 235. And then I was 255. Now, I'm back to 230, something like that.
DC: Wow, that's crazy. Where did you grow up?
DC: Virginia? Rural Virginia, or city?
Jerod: No, the seven cities. Like Hampton, Newport News-
DC: Got it.
Jerod: Virginia Beach, that area.
DC: Yeah, yeah. And where do you live now? Here?
Jerod: So now I'm out here in Boston loving it. I met my wife here, so I'm here for good.
DC: Oh, yeah? Is she from New England?
Jerod: If Coach Riff hires me, you guys move out West.
DC: See? crosstalk
DG: You won't be here though? crosstalk Would you like to be VP of Engineering? Sign me up.
DC: Yeah, let's go.
Jerod: Where's my Python book? I need a Python book.
DC: Java, Java.
Elias: Yeah, Java. Java, we'll get it.
DC: Oh, Java.
DC: C ++, Java.
DG: Okay. Hold on, hold on. So we've gone-
DC: So is your wife from New England?
Jerod: Yeah, she's from New England. She's from Boston.
DC: It's official. It's official. Jerod is now VP of Engineering with Drift.
DG: Why is Jerod Mayo on Seeking Wisdom?
DC: Oh, yeah. How did this happen? We forgot to introduce this.
DG: So you do have a knack for like, " Yo, I'm texting with Jerod, or texting with so- and- so..." I'm like, " What?"
Elias: crosstalk Let me tell a little bit of that story, hold on. No. First of all, I don't know anybody famous. I know Jocko-
Jerod: I'm not famous. I'm just a normal guy.
Elias: And I know Jerod.
DG: Yeah, you are.
Jerod: I'm just a normal guy.
DG: I can tell.
Elias: He is a normal guy, but he's famous too.
DG: So Jerod, you played football for the Patriots?
Elias: crosstalk In New England, but I'm not famous.
DC: For those of you that don't know, he played for the Patriots.
Elias: I had to admit to Jerod in the kitchen that I didn't know what he played for.
Jerod: You still thought football was soccer, man. I'm like, come on.
Elias: I find them on Wikipedia. On Wikipedia.
DC: David is the famous guy here, right? But the other day I get a text, and it says, " Hey, do you want to go out to dinner with Jerod Mayo?" I'm like, " Of course. Of course, I'm in." Cancel all my plans. TJ sends me that text, friend of David's, friend of ours, and friend of Jerod too. And I go up to David, " David, I'm going to dinner with Jerod." And he goes, " Who's that? And by the way, I got asked first, but I'm busy tonight."
Elias: That's great.
DC: I get the hand- me- downs from PP. And I'm like, " I'll take it." Then you had your son, but someone here-
DG: Becky, Becky, Becky.
DC: Took Lucas.
Jerod: Oh, get out of here.
DC: Because I had Lucas here at the office.
DG: He was here?
DC: Lucas was at the office today.
DC: Dropped his son for me, man. That's why we'll be friends forever.
Elias: crosstalk And so he went to watch the movie A Wrinkle In Time with Becky.
Elias: He's now reading the book.
DC: That Becky got a raise. She's now VP of Engineering.
Elias: She did. Yeah yeah.
DC: Temporary. Temporary.
DG: Keep passing it on. Yeah, passing it on.
Elias: Becky and Sierra.
DG: All right. So-
Elias: That's how it went. So I just show up. I show up to dinner. I'm sitting next to him, and he's like, " Wow, this is a really cool, normal guy." And we just start-
Jerod: Yeah, you're super cool. Super cool.
Elias: Talking about business school.
Jerod: Any guy with beads on his wrist like that, I'm his friend.
Elias: Thank you. Thank you, Jerod. crosstalk
Jerod: I'm trying to be like Jules.
DG: He calls him Jules? That's your boy?
Elias: Jules. Show him the picture!
DG: Yeah, he can't show half of the actual picture.
Elias: Don't show him the picture.
DG: He was there!
Jerod: With Jules, yeah. He was there. He was there. I was telling him about our Super Bowl trip.
Elias: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man.
Jerod: So Julian-
Elias: That's great.
Jerod: Was actually my neighbor. And Julian used to play defense. So before he was this offensive guy, he played defense. Played corner.
Elias: Oh, really?
Jerod: Every play. What do I do on this play, Jerod? I'm like, " Hey, you got this guy right here." Every single play.
DG: He was your neighbor here?
DC: He went to your house to eat? What was the whole?
Jerod: Yeah, so he was my neighbor. We left our door unlocked, so he'd just walk in. Kind of like Al Bundy.
DC: Al Bundy.
Jerod: The guys just walk in the house... He was that guy.
DC: So can we come in to eat dinner?
Jerod: Any time.
DG: You're in now.
DC: My house is like that. My house is unlocked too, so you can come in anytime.
Jerod: Yeah, I just saw you guys did a new round, so I should be coming to your house.
Elias: That's it. That's it.
Jerod: That top shelf, let me get that top shelf up there, man.
Elias: Yeah, I grew up in Queens. And my mom used to love one show, which played all the time. I don't know if you saw it, Martin?
Jerod: What do you mean you don't know if I-
Elias: All right, then.
Jerod: Wait, how are you going to ask me you don't know if I saw Martin?
Elias: Because you made me think about it.
Jerod: crosstalk Brother- man! Open a window! He was Brother- man.
Elias: You just walk in-
Jerod: Making a ham sandwich.
Elias: Hang on, what are you doing? Ham sandwich.
Jerod: You don't know about that show.
DG: Of course!
Jerod: You don't know about Martin.
DG: Yes! I didn't grow up watching Martin, but-
Jerod: He only like Eminem.
DG: That is not true.
Elias: My mom used to watch it all the time, and Brother- man would come in.
DC: One Martin episode-
Jerod: Your mom watched it?
DG: Nothing, I got nothing.
DC: I watched that show.
Elias: Yeah, yeah. She loved that. But Brother- man would come in, I guess that's Julian. Make himself a ham sandwich.
Jerod: Ham sammich. No, not sandwich, sammich.
Elias: Sammich. And then go out the window and leave.
Jerod: And go out the window.
Elias: That's amazing.
DG: So Edelman, Edelman, that's the story.
Jerod: Yeah, he was the bomb, man.
DG: That's going to be you now.
Jerod: Edelman was the bomb. Title this episode, Edelman Was A Bomb.
DG: It might be the most popular episode.
Elias: He was comparing Jules with him.
DC: Because Edelman is on the show and it's a riot.
DG: What do you actually want to talk to Jerod about? I have some ideas.
Elias: You run it. We can do whatever you think.
DG: No, we have some-
DC: I think there's two things. The topic really is about your discipline as a leader while you were playing professional sports, and how you're being transitioned in that. You impressed me when you were telling me what you set yourself out to do after the game and what you're doing now. So I want to talk about that.
Jerod: I'll give, at least David, a little background.
DG: Yeah, tell them.
DC: By the way, our investor Ezer, he has season tickets. So we get about one invite a year to go. And so we go, we sit down... We're in the Putnam seats. It's amazing. And David the whole time, he's talking to Ezer like this. And I'm like, " David, the game is over there."
Jerod: Well, you got to come with me. I'll take you on the field.
Jerod: Middle of the game, we go down on the field. I'm serious!
DC: You going to get the turf in your toes.
Jerod: I'm not taking David. He wouldn't appreciate that.
DC: No, no, no. Don't take me. Don't take me. Lot of traffic over there.
Elias: Too much sensory feelings there.
Jerod: So in all seriousness, so I was drafted in 2008. I was a first- round draft pick. 2007, they had just went 18- 1. They lost the Super Bowl, which sucks. But it is what it is. And I was a Top 10 draft pick. So I left as a junior. It was great. I come into an organization where you have Teddy Bruschi, Tom Brady, Randy Moss, all these old guys. And when I say old in football, that's 30. That's all. I retired at 29. So I come in, all these guys, super stars. First game as a rookie, Tom Brady tears his ACL. So from my perspective-
DG: That's crazy, I forgot.
Jerod: I'm thinking I'm going back to the Super Bowl. Top 10 pick, we're going back to the Super Bowl. Tears his ACL, we still went 11 games with Matt Cassel. No shots to Matt Cassel, but he ain't no Tom Brady.
DG: Tom Brady, right?
Jerod: So we end up having that season. I was Rookie of the Year that year. The next year during pre- season... So during pre- season, the coach pick the captains. So Bill and those guys picked me as the captain.
DC: Bill? Who's Bill?
Jerod: Belichick, sorry.
DG: And you're what, 22? 21?
Jerod: I was 23 at the time. Or 22, 23.
DC: You're a team captain.
Jerod: So it's cool, at first. Until you realize you're going out to the coin toss and you're the only one out there. So usually, if we win the toss, we want to kick the ball. If we lose the toss, we want to defend this goal. So now, usually when I go out there, I'm like, " Hey, Tom. What did Bill say again?" Because I have a little bit of obsessive compulsive disorder.
DG: You had no time.
Jerod: I would just go check the locks all the time on the door. But now, no one I can talk to to say, " Hey, what did Bill say he wanted to do if we won the toss?"
Elias: Yeah, you're right. Bill, give me a hand signal. Bill, hand signal.
DG: And that's his thing. You screw up the coin toss-
Jerod: Well, no. You can't screw up a coin toss. I'm choosing heads or tails. But if you screw up the-
Elias: The call.
Jerod: Receive or-
DG: That's what I mean. There's a day the wind is the right direction-
Jerod: Probably won't be a captain during the pre-season. But during the season, the players pick the captains. I'm always about the people. Always about the guys. So it was one thing to be selected as a captain from your coaches. It's a totally different ballgame when your peers select you as a captain. So I was a captain seven out of eight years for the defense, and it was a great time.
DG: Do you remember what he said? What was that conversation like? You're 23, going into Bill's office. Did you have any idea what he was going to talk to you about?
Jerod: Nope. First of all, going into Bill's office is nerve- racking. He's one of those two- finger type people.
DG: That's how I feel when he calls me. When he calls you-
Jerod: Is he a super good type? There's no way-
DG: No. No. Not, but he never calls. So when the phone rings, I'm like, " Oh, fuck."
Jerod: Yeah, for sure.
Elias: He's like, "Jerod, we need to talk. Come to the office."
Jerod: Seriously. But when I look back on my career, this is how I became captain, at least from my point of you. So we used to do two- a- days. You're not familiar with two- a- days-
DG: Yeah, no.
Jerod: I'm sure. That's two practices in one day.
DG: He'll like the idea of it though. Imagine you had to come to work twice.
Jerod: Oh, for sure. crosstalk Come to work twice. It's brutal. It's brutal. I was a rookie. Every once in a while, guys were like, " Man, we can't have full pads there." But no one liked talking to Bill. I can tell, your employees like you. They like the both of you guys.
DC: For the most part.
DG: Go like this, yeah.
Jerod: No, no, no. For the most part.
DG: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jerod: But you seem approachable.
Jerod: Bill's not like that. Seriously. No matter who you are, you go talk to Bill, it's going to be a tough conversation. So as a rookie, the guys used to say, " Jerod... Rookie, get it."
Elias: Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
Jerod: "Rookie, get in there. Ask Bill if we can get out a pass." And my whole mindset was, first of all, Bill can't whoop my ass. If me and Bill got in a fight, I'm going to beat Bill's ass. I knew that in my head.
Elias: You had that.
Jerod: Yeah, I had that. Secondly, if the worst thing he can say to me is no, doesn't hurt to ask. So I would go into Bill's office, and he would be there doing the two- finger typing thing like this, with a pencil in his here.
DG: That is how you picture him typing.
Jerod: It is, yeah. Behind the screen, like Coach.
Elias: crosstalk have surfaced.
DG: How many words per minute?
Jerod: 46, right?
Elias: He had a 46.
DG: 20 words a minute for Bill?
Jerod: On that 46, man. Floppy drive.
Jerod: He's not doing anything. Floppy drive, 46. But listen, so I would walk in there, and I'm like, " Bill. Guys are tired. We can't be in full pads today." And 9 times out of 10, Bill would be like, " Get out of my office. What are you doing? You're a rookie. Get out of here." But 1 time out of 10, Bill would say, " You know what, Jerod? You're right. We're out of pads today." And when I would go back to the locker room, I was a hero. Guys would legit pick me up-
DG: crosstalk captain.
Jerod: They're like, " Jerod did it!"
Elias: Yeah, he's captain.
Jerod: And next thing you know, when the guys knew it wasn't really about me. It was about the greater good, that's when guys start to follow you. I didn't care. I was out of pads too. But then I didn't care. I was Rookie of the Year. I don't care about a trophy. Even my Super Bowl ring, I'll give that to my son. I don't care about that stuff. I try to run away from the past like the plague.
Elias: Into the future. Yeah.
Jerod: Oh, for sure. For sure. And that's one thing Bill really taught me there. He's always like, " Change the page." It reminds me of Bill Belichick. You have to change the page. No matter if it's a win, or a loss, or whatever. Hey, we'll look at it. What happened? What went well? What went poorly? But at the end of the day, we're onto... What did he say? Onto Cincinnati. The next day, I remember, onto Cincy.
DC: And that's how he really was?
Jerod: That's how he really is, yeah. That's how he really is. And I appreciate that. So if you approach every day like that, think about what you could do. There's so many times you walk into people in the streets and they're like, " I remember when I used to play..."
Elias: You're just like, " Forget it."
Jerod: It's like, " This conversation's not going anywhere."
DG: One of the interesting people we had on this podcast, she ran People and Talent at Netflix for 15 years. Patty McCord, she's a beast. And one of the things she said that screwed up Netflix as the company grew, was that there was this crop of people that would always reminisce for the early days. " Oh, we used to be able to do this. And we used to be able to do that." And so, she said that's the worst thing you can do is be nostalgic for the past. To always have that mindset. We even have it here. We had-
Jerod: Netflix hit a all- time high yesterday on stocks though.
DC: Oh, really?
DG: March was the biggest month that we've had, and it was big celebration, huge milestone. But then the second that clock turned April, everybody's like, " We're onto April."
DC: Oh, for sure. What is it? We go from hero to zero-
DG: Hero to zero.
DC: On the first day of the month. You're in sales, no?
Jerod: A little bit. I work in strategy for the most part, but I help the sales guys out a lot. So they love when I come in on a deal, because I can help them come top down on a lot of deals. I can open the doors. Because the C- suite, they like sports for the most part.
Elias: Oh, okay, okay. Yeah.
Jerod: C- suite guys, you might be the only C- suite guy I know that doesn't like... There has to be a sport.
Elias: I like that. I like basketball.
Elias: Basketball, I don't really follow, but I like it. I grew up liking the Knicks, and then Celtics, whatever.
Jerod: Are those NFL tickets? No, stop it, stop it.
Elias: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jerod: No, stop it. Stop it.
DC: This is better. Keep him out of sports.
DG: When we've gone to watch the Celtics-
Elias: I like tennis.
DG: This is what he does with the investment team. Hey, what's up? They're talking about something.
Jerod: Oh, yeah. For sure.
DG: I'm like, "The game is over here, DC."
Jerod: I've been there.
DC: My daughter likes football.
Jerod: Okay, perfect. Perfect. But same thing with me. So I go to games now, and I network like crazy. So I watch the game a little bit. I do a TV show on Tuesdays, but I watch the game a little bit, but I network. At those events, those are great networking opportunities.
DG: Did you know-
DC: What's your TV show?
Jerod: Quick Slants on-
DC: For the one person that doesn't know.
Jerod: NBC Sports. So it's on NBC sports.
DC: There's some of us that don't know.
Elias: I didn't know that, Jerod. I don't watch TV.
DC: And what was your new role that you transitioned to? So you retired-
Jerod: Yeah, so when I retired-
DC: At what age?
Jerod: I was 29. So I'll tell you the whole story. So I went back home. I had a few injuries, so I tore both pecks. I tore a patellar tendon. All things that you can put back together. If you can put it back together, probably could have stole three or four more years. But if I'm not going to play 95%, I don't want to play. If I'm going to be out there just-
Jerod: Just be out there, I'm not doing it. The Samurai way, man. I fell on my sword. I fell on my sword. So I took an interview with United Health Group. The CEO came out, interviewed me, gave me the job. Let me rewind... So I was out in Virginia with my mom, and we're sitting there having a tequila. And I'm like, " Ma, I'm done. I can't do it." And that's where it all started. So when I was drafted, I was home. I didn't go to New York for the draft. Every pick that went by, we did a shot of Patron. That's why I don't drink Patron today. Good thing I went 10, or I wouldn't be here today.
DC: Yeah, what about Don Julio?
Jerod: I like Don Julio. Yeah.
DG: Can you rewind and tell that story? Why didn't you go to the draft?
Jerod: It's all about family for me.
DG: You're a top 10. You're a top pick, so all the top picks go to the draft. You're in the suit. You're doing a photo shoot. You see it on the show. If you're going to be in first round, they know. Or you have an agent. They let you know, " Hey, Jerod, we think you're going to go here."
Jerod: They try and give you a projection on where they think, but no one really knows.
DG: But you were at home?
Jerod: But I'm about family and friends. I'm about my circle, and I try to keep my circle pretty tight. But you want to spend that time with family. That's how I've always been. But that's how it started. We get the call from Bill, you're going 10 to New England. I'm like, " Where is New..." I knew the New England states. I knew the New England states.
DG: Where in New England?
Jerod: But I'm like, " Where in New England?" Yeah because crosstalk.
DG: One more time, did he have any excitement?
Jerod: None. None. Bill's like this, man... But I appreciate that. I appreciate that in a leader, a guy who's like that.
Elias: Even when stuff is going wrong, or stuff's going right, everything's the same.
DG: For the most part. Unless it's Jets week.
DC: David is very similar to Belichick. He's not a lot of excitement. And people have a hard time approaching him.
Jerod: The thing about Bill, at least for me, his expectations for me were higher than my own expectations. And that's what really stretched me to become a better football player, that's one thing, but a better leader. Husband... Just a better man.
DC: Jerod, tell these people, please.
DG: This is the truth.
DC: David has made me want to be a better man.
Elias: Have higher expectations than you-
DC: He is though. He's relentless. He's results- driven. And I come, like, " I did this well," hoping for a pat on the back. And he's like, " Well, next time, can we do this?"
Jerod: Oh, you sound like Bill.
DG: No, we talk about this a lot.
Jerod: So every once in a while, we would go out, free agency, and get a big- name player. He's probably a future Hall of Famer. I'll let you guys try-
Jerod: Guess who it is, but not really. So he'll probably be a future Hall of Famer. He comes here, we're doing training camp. And he breaks up a pass. He's playing defense. He breaks up a pass, and Bill doesn't say anything to him. He just walks away. So he pulls him to the side after practice, and he's like, " This guy..." And he's like, " Jerod, how come Bill never tells me good job?" I'm like, " Listen, you're doing what you're supposed to do." For you to get an atta- boy, we call them atta- boys or a pat on the back, you have to go above and beyond-
Jerod: Fot sure. That's when you get that.
DG: That's the level.
Jerod: But it makes the pats on the back even more-
DC: And does he give you a real pat? Or does he just give you a-
Jerod: No, it's a real pat. No, no, it's a real pat. But you know when he gives you one of those.
DG: How do they set that culture though? Did you know coming in, " Oh, this guy's not going to work out," because he wants this-
Jerod: Oh, for sure.
DG: How do you get everybody bought in? 53 people, bought in?
Jerod: How do you define culture, first of all? I guess that's even a better question.
DG: We talk about this all the time.
DC: Yeah, we have different definitions. Sorry to interrupt.
DG: No, go.
DC: My version is, culture's just the collection of the people on the team inside the company, what have you. All of us, and it's always changing. Because of that, because you bring different people. And then it's the things that you celebrate, and the things that you hold people accountable too. And most people have values that they will not hold the team accountable for, and that becomes your culture. Even if you said something else, that's the culture. Whatever you tolerate, bad behavior. So that's my version.
Jerod: Oh, I totally agree with that. And yeah, I tell people all the time, your culture... I see all these sales guys here. If all of the sudden a new employee comes in and he sees, we'll just say Sally. She's selling like crazy, but she's doing something not the right way, but she gets promoted.
DC: Right there. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jerod: Exactly. That becomes your culture. So when you start to look at it that way... So you bring guys in, and you hear people say it all the time, culture fit. He's a culture fit. But from our perspective, culture add. You could be a culture add.
DG: Yeah, we talk about us. You are what you tolerate.
DG: But you can't always just have the founders be the ones that are policing it.
Jerod: For sure.
DG: That has to come on it's own. And all of a sudden it's you saying, " Hey, pick that thing up." Or, " Take care of that yourself."
DC: Something that we're working on right now is called identity transition. Because at the beginning, when it's just 10, 15 of us, it's the founders, right? But in reality is what Drift is going to turn into. What everybody in the team can understand, and follow, and be able to encourage, to motivate, to inaudible. To tell others we're doing this right, we're doing this wrong.
Jerod: No, no. See, but some people look at culture as this retroactive way of validating success if that makes sense. It's like, " Must have been the culture..." But culture's a real thing.
DC: Oh, yeah.
Jerod: It's a real thing. And the culture in New England, we win a lot of games, and now you're starting to see a bunch of these articles come out like, " Is Tom not happy? Is Gronk..." You see all these articles. Those are things that for the most part, have always happened behind closed doors. All of those discussions have happened behind closed doors, and within any family you will have-
DC: Yeah, for sure.
Jerod: Some type of fights, for sure. People change and all that stuff. But from my perspective, now you're starring to see it come out. If the team blows up or whatever, I hope they don't. But if the team blows, this will be a business case study. Because everything that's happening with New England right now, you'll see it with companies.
DC: Companies. For sure.
Jerod: Corporations, yeah.
DC: For sure. And how do you think about the future for you? What are you interested in doing? How do you grow?
Jerod: Yeah. So I'm day- to- day. I'm day- to- day, as far as I try to stay as present as possible. You hear people say it all the time. I meditate every morning. You get up and you work out... I work out and I meditate every single morning.
Elias: I don't exactly work out in the morning.
DG: He goes on a one mile job.
Elias: Workout is not-
DG: I think you guys have different definitions for work out.
Elias: Absolutely. How many burpees do you do in the morning?
Jerod: I don't do burpees. I don't do burpees.
Elias: See, we have to wear loose- fitting sweatshirts and vests.
DG: I wear-
Elias: When you were vests all the time... We have different definition of work out.
DG: He's become more self- conscious, but he's good. He's good.
Elias: I'm learning. I'm learning.
Jerod: Sorry, sorry. The question was?
Elias: What's your-
DC: How do you want to grow-
DG: The future-
Jerod: Yeah. So I'm always looking to do something new. I listen to podcasts. I listen to audio books all the time. But I start my day off in an uncomfortable state every single day. And I tell the kids this all the time, so I take a cold shower every single day.
Elias: Oh, you're one of those? You do the cold shower, yeah?
Jerod: I am one of those guys. Because I feel like if I can take this cold shower... And not only take this cold shower, but relax in the cold, there's nothing throughout the day that's going to make me that uncomfortable.
Elias: So no screaming in the cold shower?
Jerod: Even seeing Bill Belichick sitting there staring at you like, "Hey, Jerod." I'm still more uncomfortable in a cold shower. But that's the only way to grow. And I'm a huge believer in your circle. Surrounding yourself with the right people. Proximity to things you want to do. You can't be the world's greatest bass fisherman living in Montana, or something. Or Vegas, right? And that's how we connected. So I wanted to be around guys like you. So I appreciate that.
DG: How old are you now? 32- ish?
Jerod: 32, yeah.
DG: 32. So in any other career, you're young as hell.
Elias: Yeah, young, right?
DG: But you have this football life, which is between 20 and 30. 25, 26. 27, did you start to think about what-
Jerod: Oh, I was thinking at 22.
DG: You were?
Jerod: Yeah, I remember-
DG: Just pain?
Jerod: Yeah. Because the thing about it, one I first was drafted in 2008, I still remember Teddy Bruschi saying to me... He said, " You're closer to the end now, then you are to the beginning."
DG: That's crazy.
Jerod: My first day on the job. So he's sitting there, we're eating lunch, and he's like, " What do you want to do? What do you think you're going to do your rookie year?" I had just had 140 tackles. I had a great season junior year-
DG: In college.
Jerod: In college. So I'm playing 16 games, I can get 100 tackles in 16 games. So Teddy says, " I remember the last guy who said something like that. His name was Andy Katzenmoyer." And if you guys know Andy Katzenmoyer, Katz came in here and he was supposed to be the next big thing, and I don't think... He brought 30-
DG: He was a high- draft pick. He barely played the first year.
Jerod: Yeah, he probably had 30 tackles his entire career.
Jerod: So, I don't know. And now Teddy's a good friend.
DG: But those guys-
DG: Those guys influenced you.
Jerod: They wanted to cut my hair at the time.
Jerod: I was like, "I'm not cutting my hair."
DG: You have somebody like Teddy Bruschi and Rodney Harrison say, " Yo, you need to be thinking crosstalk."
Jerod: Well, Rodney wasn't saying that.
Jerod: No, he wasn't that kind of guy.
DG: What was he saying?
Jerod: No, Rodney's a good guy.
DG: Just different?
Jerod: But Rodney used to treat rookies like rookies. It was tough for me. It's one thing, I'm all about paying your dues. Totally. I'll pay the rookie tab, whatever it is. But some people just treat-
Jerod: It's like, " Come on, man. This is not a fraternity."
DC: Let's haze them.
Jerod: They try to make it sound like, " We're a family, we're a family..." It's like, " No, we're really not a family."
DC: Not a family.
Jerod: And that's where people, in business, and people get it confused in sport. Totally, I'm going to give you everything I have out here across the field. But if you mess up too many times-
DC: You're done.
Jerod: I got to let you go.
DC: You got to cut.
Jerod: I have to-
DC: And that can't happen in family.
Jerod: Another thing, I love when Bill used to do this. He would call the captains in, and we would have to write down five players we couldn't play without.
Jerod: And five players that we had to have.
DC: Wow. Savage move.
Jerod: Yeah, but it was only the captains. You talk about real insights into a group of people.
DG: Isn't that in the principles? We openly talk about that. This is not a family, because a family mindset changes.
Jerod: A family is unconditional love. If my son messes up 20 times, I still love him. But it's like, " You keep messing up... All right, buddy. I still love you, but it's not unconditional."
DC: You got to go. You got to go.
Jerod: This is called conditional love.
DG: But that's important. You see companies talk about we're a family. That changes the whole culture.
Jerod: It changes the whole culture.
Elias: Well, it's fake. Everyone knows it's fake. That it's a team. That's amazing. What's interesting about that, when you rate the top and the bottom five, then for those captain and everyone, it gives you a perspective that you're maybe not even thinking about.
Jerod: Oh, for sure.
Elias: You're tolerating something with those bottom five that you hadn't thought about.
Jerod: For sure.
Elias: It forces you to deal with it.
Jerod: Because we're all in our lite separate groups as well. So just like here, you have sales here. You have marketing over there. But at the end of the day, you're all on the same team. But special teams, defense and offense are totally different groups. Linebackers, defensive backs, defensive line, totally different groups. Totally different personalities. And for you guys as leaders, it's your responsibility to have a pulse of everyone without micromanaging. Now that is a tough dilemma.
Elias: How did your wife feel when you retired?
Jerod: She felt good. She felt good.
Elias: She was okay?
Jerod: She was okay, yeah. We were good. I don't want to say it like this, but I was Top 10 big. I redid my deal. I was good.
DG: You were okay.
Jerod: Financially, we were okay.
DC: You were okay.
Jerod: We were okay financially.
DC: You're going to make it. You're going to make it?
Jerod: I work because I like to work. I like to be around people. We were okay. And she was tolly fine with it. She knew what I wanted to do. I retired for a week, and then I did an interview. Seriously, I was retired for a week-
Elias: A week, and you're like, "Okay, I got to go."
Jerod: And then I was like, "I got to work. I can't be in the house." Because if you don't continue to grow-
Elias: You're just dying.
Jerod: You're just going to die. You're going to die inside. And I know this isn't the best Jerod Mayo. You know this isn't the best David. No matter how old you are. You know this isn't the best version of you. But when you stop pursuing the best version of you, that's when you're in trouble. You're going to die.
DG: You're telling him all the things he loves.
DC: I love it. I love it, give it to me. Although, when Jerod said old, he looked at me direct.
DG: You know when you're old, you're the better version of yourself.
Jerod: I said older.
Elias: He's 48. He's 48.
DC: I'm not 48. He just makes this up every time.
Elias: What else?
DC: He said I'm 50, 51... 60, 65. Whatever.
DG: You have a beautiful family.
Jerod: I appreciate it.
DG: You have four kids?
Jerod: Four kids.
Jerod: Four kids. They're all out in Cali right now, so I'm here on the East Coast by myself.
DC: Really? How'd that happen?
Jerod: My wife went to Coachella. She goes every year. And then-
DC: But your kids go?
Elias: Beyonce was there.
Jerod: No, the kids didn't go. Beyonce was there. I just don't like-
Elias: She's partying with Bey?
Jerod: I'm like, " Man, I don't want to breathe in all the dust."
Elias: With the queen?
Jerod: All the dust, man. All the dust. That's why I don't like going to Vegas.
Elias: But the queen is-
Jerod: That's too many cigarettes for me. I'm like, " Dang."
DG: You two might not be as good friends as you think.
Jerod: No, no, no.
Elias: I hate Vegas. The smell, and the cigarettes.
Jerod: I just feel like there are vape pens out now.
DG: Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot.
Jerod: Now, when you see people smoke cigarettes, like, " Whoa, what are you doing?"
Elias: We spent four days in Vegas and we saw daylight once. It's so sad.
Jerod: It is sad.
DC: Are the kids at Coachella?
Jerod: No, so they just went out after Coachella. So they went out on Monday with our nanny.
DC: Oh, okay. That's cool.
Jerod: I'm home alone, man. I'm like, "Oh, I'm scared. I'm scared." You hear noises... You're like, "What is that?"
DG: We got your back. Where do you want to go tonight?
Jerod: Thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you.
DC: Elias has got you.
DG: Elias will show up at your house tomorrow.
Elias: Yeah, I'll free my schedule.
DC: Elias cannot be stopped. It's crazy.
Jerod: He has great energy though. And we sat beside each other at this dinner, and I just knew he was a good person. Good energy.
Elias: TJ's got energy. How'd you handle those two?
Jerod: Yeah. Well, TJ was quiet that night.
Elias: What happened?
Jerod: He was quiet.
Elias: He's off?
Jerod: Yeah, I don't know.
DG: TJ has high energy too.
Jerod: Oh, for sure. For sure.
DC: Definitely extrovert. Just constantly going. Hyper.
Jerod: But even introvert and extrovert, you hear different viewpoints on introvert and extrovert. I'm an introvert. When I want to recharge, I go in my room. I don't want to be around people to recharge. That's just me.
DG: There's times you have to be extroverted.
Jerod: Exactly, yeah. I enjoy people.
DC: Elias is a true extrovert.
DC: He has to be around people to recharge.
Jerod: See, I got to go recharge real quick, and now I'm back.
DC: He does not like being alone. See if his family goes away, he's panicked.
DG: I'm like, " Everybody text me."
Jerod: Who wants
Jerod: to go out?
DC: Lunch, dinner, this, that, I cannot be home.
Jerod: Text me. Text me.
DC: Yeah, no. I'm not with him. He's alone. We send him alone.
DG: So he's an introvert. He recharges alone. I recharge with people.
DC: And you have four kids?
Jerod: Yes, seven, six-
DC: And you're only 32?
Jerod: Three, and newborn. So we had a baby on Christmas morning. I'm 32. I figure we knock them out early. We knock them out early, and then when they get older, they're not going to want to deal with me.
DC: So you have a newborn?
Jerod: Newborn. I told my wife-
Jerod: I told my wife-
DC: He's got a newborn.
DC: 10 months.
Jerod: I started playing football, I was five- years- old. I played baseball, basketball, football, soccer. So when I got to high school, my mom, she's from the belief that put all of our eggs in one basket. So she made us quit every sport and we had to pick one.
DC: She's smart.
Jerod: Right? Yeah.
DC: Focus. Focus.
Jerod: So three out of four got full scholarships. Three out of four boys got full scholarships doing this.
Elias: And you chose the one?
Jerod: I chose football. Yeah, if I chose soccer and became a professional football player, that would make me a badass.
DC: Yeah, exactly. You'd be done.
Jerod: That would make me a bad man. But I figured, we'd just knock them out early, and it's been good. So I've had nine surgeries in my life.
Jerod: Counting scopes, and things like that. And I'm like, " I'm good at four kids." I am good. So my wife's like, " Yeah, well, go get a vasectomy." And I'm like, " I've had nine surgeries in my life, you think I want to make it to double digits?"
DC: Yeah, 10.
Jerod: I'm like, "You can get one." I don't want to get to double digits.
DG: Are you going to do it?
Jerod: No, I didn't do it. I'm trying to figure it out.
DG: I don't get too personal here.
Jerod: Yeah, don't get too personal. It's all about timing at this point.
DC: Timing. Timing. That's incredible.
Elias: Four kids. That's a big list.
Jerod: Four kids. I know, I know, I know.
Elias: Add number five?
Jerod: Don't say that. That's when you get in the van territory. So I don't want to drive a van.
Elias: Four's a van.
DG: Do you drive a van?
Jerod: I don't drive a van, no.
Elias: He lives nearby, but we told him before he had a baby, I just kept telling him one thing. You have nothing but free time right now.
DG: He did. Now-
Elias: Oh, for sure. And he was like, " No, you don't understand." Jerod, " I'm busy, I'm working all the time." Then afterwards, it's like, " Shit... I have no time."
Jerod: Oh, and wait until they start playing sports. Saturdays... What are weekends? Someone tell me what weekend are, because I have no clue.
Elias: His is just sitting. He's got one just sitting eating Cheerios.
DG: See this is the scope.
Jerod: Enjoy it.
DG: You had no kids, and it's like, "Just wait till you have one." Now that I have one, it's like, " Yeah, but just wait till you two, and three, and weekends, and four."
Jerod: Yeah, boy or girl?
Jerod: Oh, girl.
DC: He's at the stage, it's still baby just sits there, eats a Cheerio.
Jerod: Put her in the boppy. crosstalk Put her in the boppy, she can't even hold her head up. She's just sitting there like this. That's all she does.
DC: You just described all his Instagram videos.
DG: I'll be brushing my teeth in the morning. I just sit her down in the bathroom. She sits like this.
Jerod: Yeah, for sure. That's a great time. Enjoy it.
DC: That's a great time.
Jerod: Enjoy it.
DG: All right, all right, all right, all right. We get it.
Jerod: How many times do you hear this? Enjoy it. Enjoy this time.
DC: When she starts running around?
DG: No, it's amazing.
Jerod: Kids are great. I'm just telling you, they're a lot of work. They're a lot of work. Expensive. I look back on how my mom raised for boys, and I have no clue.
Elias: Your mom raised four boys?
Jerod: Yeah, four boys. She remarried when I was probably 12 or 13.
Elias: Still, that's crazy.
Jerod: Four boys, I have a great set of grandparents. My grandmother and grandfather helped raise us, but diapers are expensive.
Jerod: Milk, all that stuff.
DG: Do you have specific things that you're trying to impart on them? Not to get too deep into parenting lessons, but are there things you were really passionate about that you're like, " No matter what, I want my kids to do this."
Jerod: Yeah, it's all about discipline and hard work. If you want something, you have to be disciplined. And that's why earlier on, I tried to talk about the difference between motivation and discipline.
Jerod: Yeah, because-
Elias: I'm his discipline. I'm an external discipline.
Elias: He's motivated.
Jerod: I've seen guys who are these tough guys before games, like, " Oh, let's go!" They're so motivated to get on the field. They get smacked in the face one time, and they're done the rest of the game. But if you can always fall back on discipline, it's always there. You're not even thinking about it. You're just so disciplined to the point that you're just doing it.
Jerod: You're just getting up at 4: 30 in the morning going to do something. You don't even need an alarm clock. I get up three minutes before my alarm clock goes off.
DG: Is that when you get up? 4: 30?
Jerod: Yeah, 4:30.
Jerod: Yeah, I'm in the gym by 5: 00.
DG: At your house, or you go somewhere?
Jerod: I go somewhere, but I have a Peleton as well.
DG: You do?
Jerod: Love the Peleton.
DC: You like the Peleton? crosstalk
DG: Remember that commercial? Shout out, Peleton. Should be a Drift customer very soon.
Jerod: You know the treadmill?
DC: Yeah, yeah. That's coming out.
DG: Peleton is almost a Drift customer.
Jerod: Nice. OYAM51, Peleton. Send me a free month.
DC: Is that crosstalk?
Jerod: Yeah, I was 51. So Mayo backwards. OYAM51.
DC: Oh, okay.
DG: Love that.
Jerod: That used to be the password that my mom gave us. Because at the time growing up, my dad was roaming. And she was scared that he would come get us.
DG: So you would say Oyam.
Jerod: So she worked two jobs. If she had to send someone to come pick us up and we didn't know them, they had to have the password.
DG: Code word?
Jerod: Which was Oyam, it was Mayo-
DG: That's crazy.
Jerod: Backwards. If they didn't have the password, it's like, " I'll walk home."
DC: That's crazy.
DG: They know the special code.
DC: That's amazing. So I got to get a Peleton. That's one.
Jerod: Get a Peleton.
DC: Two, you mentioned audiobooks and podcasts. Do you have any favorites you want to tell your people? What would you recommend?
Jerod: Yeah. So 99% Invisible.
DC: Love that.
Jerod: Oh, love that podcast. Hidden Brain on NPR.
DC: Yeah, NPR.
Jerod: Love Hidden Brain. I listen to Faris a little bit.
DC: Yeah, little bit. Little bit. Gets a little much to me sometimes.
Jerod: Sometimes it does, yeah. It just started getting like that though.
Jerod: Earlier on-
DC: Earlier it was good.
Jerod: It was, " Oh, this is good."
DG: Because he had the best guests. He tapped out at the best 50, 100 guests.
Jerod: That's true. That's true. Then he did the Titans. But the Titans podcast... Eh. I tried it. crosstalk
DG: Have you thought about writing a book? You going to write a book?
Jerod: No, not really. I'm still trying to find my way, honestly. I've only been in the business world now for three years. This will be three years.
DC: Do videos, books, all that.
Jerod: It's going well. It's going well. I love the tech-
DC: You like tech?
Jerod: So, I started investing in tech in 2010.
DC: Oh, really?
Jerod: Have a buddy Andy who introduced me to Matt Christensen, who's Clay's crosstalk. And Matt, he's a great guy. And he just opened up my eyes to a few things. We've invested in a couple of companies together. And this other friend Andy... We've invested in these companies. I love seeing the future before everyone else. And if you can help bring the future to the present, why not? I love that space.
DC: You should be teaching Clay's class.
Jerod: Hey, man.
DC: Should bring you in there, man.
Jerod: We'll see.
DC: Harvard business professor.
Elias: I think the principles that you have, it's taken me this far... I'm 20 years in the tech world, and David has been accumulating a lot of this wisdom. And after working with him for 10 years, now I actually get it now. I have to become like that. I'm pushing myself to be disciplined because I'm more just raw energy, and just get the job done that way. But I'm learning how to be more disciplined. But I think you already have all of that, so I think you're going to do really well.
Jerod: Yeah, for sure.
DC: Took a lot of Belichick moments.
Elias: And still.
Jerod: Felt good, yeah. But it's good that you guys can play, like you said Yin and Yang.
Elias: Different world. Different world.
DG: Sometimes he'll just look at me about him, and he'll go, " 10 years." That's how long they've been working together, 10 years.
Jerod: Even in Yin and Yang though, you got to remember on the black side, there's a little speck of white.
DG: Of white, yeah.
Jerod: And on the white said, there's a little speck of black.
DG: Man, Jerod is deep, man. The problem is that when I draw back the wisdom, I replay it back on him. When he's feeling, and I'm like, " Well, this, this, this..." He's like, " Oh my God. I can't even get back to you."
DC: I have bad news for you, DG.
DC: I think I got a new cohost over here.
DG: That's great. No, this is good. This would be a good thing.
DC: crosstalk We're going global here.
DG: I'll gladly be out. I'll gladly be out. I got work to do.
DC: He's got four kids. He's got four kids.
DG: Jerod, I want you to have this.
Jerod: No, I wouldn't. Anytime, this has been great. Anytime.
DG: Yeah, thank you, man.
Jerod: I love talking about this stuff.
DG: We appreciate it. You have the essence, how can we help you?
DC: Yeah, how do we crosstalk?
Jerod: For me-
DG: We love expanding our circle.
Jerod: Yeah, yeah. So I just like to get close... Look at my network. I know the C- suite and corporate America.
DG: Corporate, yeah.
Jerod: No problem. I know some of the top investors in the country. I want to get closer to the entrepreneur, and that's what we talked about. I want to get closer to the people who are really doing the grunt work, and how can I help those people? Because at the end of the day, if you help those people bring in the future, you know what I mean? crosstalk
DG: We'll give you a special contest. Let's think about this. We're going on- the- fly. I like to go on- the- fly contest. We're going to do a special contest, only if Jerod agrees.
Jerod: I'm in.
DG: That we have a private dinner with some top entrepreneurs in the country.
Jerod: For sure.
DG: We'll fly out here. We'll have a dinner here.
Jerod: Let's do it.
DG: With Jerod, take him to the next level.
Jerod: I appreciate it.
DC: I love that idea.
DG: Let's do it. We're going to do that. We'll organize that one.
DC: At least we'll make margaritas.
DG: Bring a bunch of people from the Bay area, from New York.
DC: We'll do it at David's house.
DC: There you go.
Elias: He's got the top shelf.
DC: Chateau Margot.
Jerod: Top shelf. Top shelf, man.
DC: All right, man.
DG: Thank you so much for coming.
DC: Thank you, Jerod, for coming.
Jerod: Oh, thanks for having me.
DG: Do you have anything you want to plug? Anything where you want people to go find out and see you?
DC: Are you on Instagram?
Jerod: I am on Instagram, but-
DG: Are you on LinkedIn?
Jerod: Oh, I'm not on LinkedIn?
DG: Jerod, we got to help you out, man. crosstalk One word of advice, you got to get on the LinkedIn train.
Jerod: For a long time, I was a ghost.
DG: I kept looking, I kept looking.
Jerod: No, no, no. Because I wanted to be a ghost for a while. I just wanted to disappear, and go in my hole, and like the Phoenix, rise from the ashes. So I'll get on.
DG: You might not need the LinkedIn network.
Jerod: Because that's the thing, when I first joined Optum, the first day I joined this company I was in Minnesota for two weeks. That's where we're headquartered. And I had two emails in my inbox from guys that wanted to work out. And I'm like, " I don't want to work out. This is my work..." Guys who just saw me walking around the office in Minnesota. I don't want to work out. I don't mind talking about football. And David, I think will be cool because you don't want to talk about football at all.
DC: Zero. Zero. This is not a most, this is everything.
Jerod: No, honestly, I don't mind talking about football, but sometimes I want to talk about something else.
DC: Something else. I get it man.
Jerod: Let's talk about politics.
Jerod: Let's talk about inaudible or something. Talk about something cool out there.
DG: Your second day at work, somebody, " Hey, Jerod. Let's skip lunch. Let's go workout."
Jerod: Oh, I know, I know. What do you think about-
DC: crosstalk Who cares? crosstalk
DG: Stick with these guys, you'll be okay.
DC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will never ask you about that. So if you love Jerod, if you loved this interview, if you want to be part of the inner circle with him, leave a six- star review.
DG: Six stars.
DC: So we have a problem, because Apple Podcasts only allows five stars, but all of our fans leave six stars.
DC: They leave a five- star, and then they leave a six- star in the description.
DG: We've been trying to pitch it to Apple. They haven't made a update.
DC: And shout out to Jerod. And if you're lucky, we might do a little video glimpse, a little bit not the whole dinner, if we hold this dinner together with the crosstalk.
Jerod: We're doing it.
DC: We're doing it. Okay, okay. I want to make sure he's committed.
Jerod: I'm there.
DC: We'll let you get a sneak peek in of the dinner, but it's a private dinner.
DG: I think we have to. Elias?
DC: Is he going to be there?
DG: You don't come here often.
DC: crosstalk Jerod said you can come to the dinner.
DG: Thank you for coming. You look good.
Jerod: I appreciate it.
DG: Peace, guys.
Jerod: This was great.
DG: All right. We're out. No respect around here. Got to do the work.
DC: Thank you so much.
DG: Thank you. (silence)