#127: DC's Secret To Managing Your Career at a Hypergrowth Company
DC: We're going to go. Now, we're ready.
DG: Double, triple check.
DC: We're back.
DC: We're back. I'm trying to get the young nephew back on a consistent publishing schedule.
DG: A consistent diet of Seeking Wisdom.
DC: Okay. What are we talking about today? Are we getting 6- star reviews today?
DG: Is the" notify" thing broken in crosstalk?
DC: I think it might be.
DG: It has to be broken.
DC: We'll check on that.
DG: I haven't gotten an email from you in a while, like forwarding the pod.
DC: 6- star reviews, even though we've been launching builds, we've been launching a new Exceptions.
DG: Exceptions. We have some of that on YouTube channels. People are big fans of Jay.
DC: Yeah. And,
DG: He's got a following and Maggie,
DC: Maggie, crosstalk and we have some new stuff coming that we haven't launched yet. So we should launch that soon with a backlog of that stuff.
DG: We got some stuff.
DC: New channels... But we don't have any 6- star reviews. So I'm going to hold the new channels that we're about to launch-
DG: Hostage. Hold them hostage.
DC: Until I see some 6- stars.
DG: Yeah. I think that's a good idea. Hold them hostage. People want the original. I think we got excited about the new channels, and then you had a sabbatical, which... people want more DC.
DC: Unbelievable. You thought that they were going to say no, huh?
DC: I was hoping they would say no.
DG: I was like... what? They miss DC. They want the wise words, which is good.
DC: Not everyone sits two inches from me all day long and gets 50,000 messages from me all day.
DG: I was thinking about that the other day.
DC: You forget that sometimes.
DG: Yeah. I was thinking about, I've been two feet away from you for a long time now. A long time. Every time we find a way. We move offices, I find a way DC's directly next to me, in front of me, whatever. Fun fact about DC, crosstalk Knock on wood. Never seen him be sick. It's just unbelievable. Elias said the same thing. He'd never seen it-
DC: Listen to that.
DG: The immune system's-
DC: Elias has been watching me for 11 years.
DG: He said he's never been sick in 11 years. And he had-
DC: Two kids.
DG: These secret tablets on his desk.
DC: I have two kids. I'm around kids. I'm going. I'm moving. I'm shaking.
DG: I don't know what it is.
DC: I've got gray hair,
DG: Some secrets, man.
DC: You know why?
DC: You know why, G2?
DC: Speaking to G2. Because I will not allow myself to get sick.
DG: I saw it once. It got him.
DC: I got it one time. One time, in 11 years.
DG: I have a question, before we talk about the real stuff.
DG: We were talking about intermittent fasting before. I'm on it right now. Leah thinks it's crazy.
DC: Explain what intermittent fasting is.
DG: So, intermittent fasting is eating within a time constrained window. And so, I think the most common one is 16 and 8. And so you eat during an eight hour window, which for me is 12: 00 PM to 8: 00 PM. And then you don't eat between the hours of 8: 00 PM and 12:00 PM.
DG: And it's supposed to be... it's crazy. I watched a bunch of stuff on it. Like Joe Rogan had some interesting stuff on it.
DC: Yeah, lots of it.
DG: He talked about like, it was, for me, it was seeing people who are very well, very good shape doing this. And it made me think, we're in this constant state of just constantly feeding your body and you don't need to do that.
DC: Mm- hmm(affirmative).
DG: And also, the main reason why I want to do it. So number one is, because I get up really early, so I've been having a hard time. I eat a lot of shit late at night.
DG: And that hurts me because then I got to get up and like 5- 6 hours after that. And then that's not good, but also I've been so busy that I just haven't had time. And I want to try to find a way, how can I still be healthy and maintain being busy? And I'm typically busy between the time I get up, I go to the gym, I come home, I hang out with Annie, I come to work... And by then all of a sudden it's lunchtime. And so I wanted to see, is there something that can fit this schedule anyway? And then I saw, oh, this might actually be perfect. Intermittent fasting. That way I can eat from 12 to 8. So
DC: Yeah. So I've done a lot in the past. crosstalk We did it for a couple of years before. And I'm back on it right now. I've been doing it for three weeks. But I want to expand-
DG: I remember. Because I remember you intermittent fast, when we were in our old office, there was a place we would always go to for Greek salad and grilled chicken. Des Fina's. Shout out to Des Fina's. And you would always be on the verge of passing out on the way to get Des Fina's.
DC: Because I would always fast in the morning, but I want to tell you the difference here between DG and I. So he's doing the intermittent fasting, and I want to explain one difference here. DG... And this is the explanation between a fat person, myself, and a thin person, naturally DG. So DG struggles to put on weight.
DC: Right. And he is one of those people, and he just mentioned it in what he was talking about there, he's one of those people that" forgets" to eat.
DC: Air quotes.
DC: I will let you know that I've never forgotten to eat in my entire life. Not one time. I have not once in my entire life, I don't even understand the concept. When I hear people like DG say"you know, I was so busy that I forgot to eat-"
DG: All of a sudden it's two o'clock. I'm like," oh, shit."
DC: That's never happened to me one time.
DG: I feel weird.
DC: My whole day, I'm thinking about when will I eat? And that is probably why I'm a fat person.
DC: All right.
DG: So you're on the train. You've been doing it for three weeks,
DC: Three weeks. I'm back on it. But I'm from the opposite end. I constrain my calories-
DG: Constrain it.
DC: Not because I'm not thinking about food.
DG: Yes. I think it's both. There's a lot of benefits. So we'll see what happens. crosstalk
DC: Today. DG and I both had two lunches.
DG: We had two lunches. We doubled down. We had two lunches.
DC: Two salads.
DG: They call it tatay. I can't say it. I call it tatty. This is not an ad. Anyway, I'm going to put you on the spot today, my friend, because this is something we've probably talked about early days of Seeking Wisdom. But you talked about this at our company meeting yesterday, and it's about managing your career at a high growth company. And so I actually brought you, thanks to G2, he hooked us up with a whiteboard.
DG: I actually want you to draw. And this is why we're doing this on YouTube. I want to turn this over to you. And I want you to explain, cause here's the deal. We talk a lot about, I want to talk about career stuff. We haven't gone there in a while. We're talking about a new phase for us at Drift. And we're talking about managing your career at a company that is growing very fast. And I want you to talk about the different phases that people go through.
DC: Sure. So I'm drawing right here. So, this is-
DG: This is also kind of a hack to make you watch us on video.
DC: And subscribe, and then hit the little bell button on YouTube. So you get notified. But back in the day, in the early days, pre Seeking Wisdom, if you can imagine such a day. DG and I used to have these meetings where he was the only marketer on the team.
DC: He had just come on. And I was kind of explaining to him how he could set himself up to grow, right? As the company was growing. And I said to DG that what happens most of the time is that a company, and I'm drawing this out, a company, usually if it's growing quickly will grow faster than the individual. And so I'm going to draw that out now. And so what usually happens is, and this is we're talking about companies experiencing hyper growth. So here I'm drawing the top line here is the company. And the bottom line here is the person with my little stick figure right here. And what I'm drawing here is that over time, if a company is undergoing hyper- growth and a person is not able to keep up ahead of that growth, which is a daunting thing, which is a normal thing to happen,
DG: Also, not a negative thing.
DC: Not a negative thing. It's normal. This is normal. Then a gap will form between the two growth paths and the company will have to start to bring in more people who have that experience, who can fill that gap, right? They may be more experienced. They might have different experience. They may have more years doing the same thing. It depends on the problem. But this is usually what happens in a hyper- growth company. But if you're in a slow growing company, which is also normal, right, the company could grow, I'm going to use the word letter C for company, slower than the individual. Again, I'm going to have my beautiful stick figure here. So in this case, the individual is growing faster than the company. And in those cases, what happens is, that's a growth oriented individual who happens to be growing faster than the company that they're in. They will typically leave that company and go somewhere else for opportunity because they're growing faster.
DG: You see this. A lot of people leaving thousand person, public companies and joining companies like early stage startups, right?
DC: Like Drift.
DG: That's why that's what.
DC: Not because there's anything wrong with those companies. Not because they didn't have a great career there, but because the growth opportunities were going away and they were growing faster than the company.
DG: Well, and usually in a company like that you know," okay. Hey, you do this for six months and you get a raise and a promotion you do at six months again. And now you're manager, senior manager, whatever. All the way up."
DC: Yes. And then the last thing, which is super rare for this thing to happen, almost never happens. So don't get down on yourself if this isn't happening to you, because this almost never happens. And that is what I've drawn here, which is the company is experiencing a hyper- growth and the individual is experiencing hyper- growth and they are actually growing slightly ahead of the company in their own personal growth. Right? And what that means is they're able to continue to jump into bigger and bigger opportunities because they are ahead of the needs of the company. Now, this almost never happens. Right? And this, I was telling a story today, we did some onboarding with some new Drifters. And I was saying, I explained this to them, and I said," this is why we hear so many stories of founders, CEOs. Like Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, or Bill Gates, or whoever you want to choose. Or Steve Jobs or any of these people that we kind of hold up there. Or Sara Blakely, who runs Spanx.
DC: Who I love. I love her Instagram, by the way, you should subscribe. And to her husband, Jesse Itzler. But anyway, why they are worth talking about is not just because they've founded a great company and whatever. It's because what they've done is so unusual to go from some person like Sara Blakely, who started this Spanx billion dollar company, multi- billion dollar company out of the back of her car with I believe$ 5, 000 savings, right? No savings, no investment and built this multi- billion dollar brand and is still running that multi- billion dollar brand years later, because that never happens. I'm not talking about a company be created that's worth billions. That barely, never happens. But a company that goes from nothing to billions and the same person can run it when it was just one person in idea. And now that it's a huge international company.
DG: And what's crazy is, if you unpack those people, Bezos, Sara Blakely, Zuckerberg, right? It's easy to say," yeah, they're just really freaking smart and they learn faster than anybody else." But I think it's, if you look at the teams around them.
DG: They early on, right?
DG: Like, look at the team Zuckerberg built around him. You've shared that graphic with us where there's something about like the senior management team at Facebook all has an average... the tenure is like a decade, right? crosstalk And so obviously he found the right team early on.
DC: And it has continued to scale and offer growth opportunities so that those hyper- growth individuals can continue to grow. That's this graph that we have right here, this is highly unusual. And what usually happens, which hasn't happened on Facebook yet, which is a great example, is that even if this happens for a year, two years, five years, 10 years, at some point, either the company or the individual starts to flatten out.
DC: Totally normal. Right? Like this is like infinite growth.
DG: Because the company crosstalk then there's 5,000, 10, 000 employees.
DC: Yeah. We're drawing here an infinitely growing company and individual. So what happens is it flattens down. And again, you get back to one of the first two graphs, which there's a mismatch. Either you grew faster than the company or the company grew faster than you. In both cases, there will be some kind of change that happens.
DC: This is an important concept that I wish someone, some old uncle with gray hair in his beard, would have told me a long time ago. It would have saved me a lot of pain in my career, but no one had told me this. Because usually when you're going through this and you don't have enough context and history, you think" oh, they're just bringing in people because they're older or they're more senior or they're not giving people a chance" or whatever the company. Then that may be true in some companies. But usually if you take ownership of this extreme ownership as our friend Jocko, who will be joining us September 4th at Hyper- Growth in Boston...
DG: He will.
DC: Please get your tickets would say crosstalk if you take extreme ownership-
DG: By the way. We're doing a meet and greet.
DC: Oh yeah?
DC: Oh, I like that.
DG: So you can meet Jocko.
DC: You can meet... Did you hear that? So, someone like him would say" take extreme ownership of this." And when I started doing that and started to analyze what I had been seeing in my own career and people around me, it was one of these three scenarios. Where it was both the company and the individual. And then were they in sync from a growth standpoint? Or were they out a sync from growth?
DG: I also think something that you've talked about a lot on this podcast with this, which is the mindset of abundance versus scarcity, right?
DC: Yes. Because a lot of people... So if you go back to this chart here, a lot of people- and the growth oriented one. But a lot of people will see when there's a mismatch, right? As things being over. So in the case where the company is growing faster here than the individual and say they don't get the next promotion. And so they bring someone in from the outside. A lot of people will look at that in a fatalist way and say like, oh," that's it." They're never going to get promoted here.
DG: I'm done.
DC: I'm done. I got to go somewhere else. This is no bueno. I got to get out of here. Right? Instead, what you need to do is think in abundance and say, wow, wait, this company is growing faster than I am. Is there an opportunity for myself to set myself up for the next promotion, the next grow inaudible. So I missed this first step. Can I do anything to achieve a step function in personal growth? So that I end up being ahead of the company when it takes its next crosstalk.
DG: I love that. That might be the most valuable lesson from this podcast. Right? Which is the mindset of like, can I learn from this person? Is that going to take me to the next level?
DC: That's right. And can I take advantage of that person that may have come in to take that next step function? That brings you slightly ahead of the company growth. So you're ready for the next thing. Right?
DG: I love it.
DC: You got to have an abundance mindset. You have to be an optimist. I'm an optimist. Although you can tell on most days, right? But I'm super optimistic. And I was telling you,
DG: You are an optimist.
DC: I'm an optimist, but I'm always giving feedback, as G2 knows. So it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to feel optimistic.
DG: The title. We can share the book title.
DC: What's it called?
DG: The book title, Gonzalo came up with this idea. The biography that we're going to write about you is going to be called Anticipating Feedback.
DC: Yes. I like that title. So anyway, I got in some wild tirade, as I do daily with Elias on something, and he was telling me that I was pessimistic. He's like," you're a pessimist." inaudible. Then we're going back and forth. Then finally I'm like," no, I'm not. I'm an optimist." And he's like," oh yeah, you are. You're a crazy optimist." But here's why he said. He said," because if you weren't a wild optimist, a super optimist, you probably would have jumped off the building by now." That was, in Elias- speak, that was some sort of compliment.
DG: I think.
DC: I'm hoping that it got lost in translation.
DG: My take on your optimism is, the reason I know you're an optimist is because the goals you set never feel like achievable goals.
DC: Did you see who's stuttering?
DG: It's true. That's my take on DC's optimism. And-
DC: I believe we can do them.
DG: More often than that. He's usually right, which is the true thing about goals. And then if you go back and you read Seven Lessons on Wealth and Happiness from Jim Rhon, crosstalk he had the idea that goals are like magnets. And they pull you-
DC: A hundred percent.
DG: Towards where you need to go.
DC: A hundred percent.
DG: A goal does not mean," well, I don't know how to get there." No, it's the fact that you set the goal that is going to pull you there because you have to then think about the goal. You don't need to plan. The reason. And that's what I realized. I'm glad, it took me a while to learn it, but now I know it. And the reason that you set big- ass goals for us as individuals and the company is because if you set anything else, you're going to get, you always say this, you say," you get what you play to."
DC: Exactly. And I'm not an elaborate planner like DG is and lots of other people around me, which is good, that's why I need compliments.
DC: But I've always used that technique of setting, like Jim Rohn says, setting these big goals. And since I'm not an elaborate planner, I don't even know how I'm going to get to them. And I don't even know on a day- to- day basis how I'm going to get to them. But because I've set them, I've set that intention. Like I'm going to get there. This magnet, for me, I end up doing the things that I need to do each day to get me to that goal. Almost subconsciously.
DC: Now I'm not advocating that for everyone. Like... most people need a more stepped out kind of plan and thinking on that stuff. But for me, that is why it's worked for me and why I continue to set big goals because that's the only way you're going to achieve.
DG: I love that. So yeah, I think that's why you're an optimist. Okay. So you know what I thought of while you're saying this, I think we should give people- this is a great lesson. We've got to do more of this.
DC: Mm- hmm( affirmative). Whiteboard.
DG: This is the core of Seeking Wisdom to me. This is what this is about. Whiteboard. Thanks G2 for the notebook. I tried to take credit for this, but I can't. This is kind of like a wine pairing. I think there's a book to pair with this episode.
DC: Well, on this one? crosstalk The second one is Managing Oneself.
DG: That was the one I was going to say.
DC: Come on. That's an OG book there. G2, have you read Managing Oneself?
DG: I got to get a copy for him.
DC: That's a problem.
DG: Yeah. 40 pages.
DC: It's 40 pages long. Okay. I know you're into video. I know you're a visual thinker. crosstalk Okay. You're right, he reads. It's only 40 pages long.
DG: I'm going to get it right now.
DC: You should reread it. We probably have copies in the office, but you should read that book every four to five years. You read this book. It is everything. The fundamental book, right? I read it all the time. It's like a little pamphlet. You could read it in 30 minutes.
DG: Okay G2?
DC: G2 is looking at me. And, if you don't know who I'm talking about, G2 is the master. The wizard. The man who makes the video happen. Hopefully he makes me look younger on these here cameras. And I've been asking him for a little while about a slimify filter, but he has not come through. So if you happen to be listening and you know about a slimify filter that we can use for this, please hook the uncle up.
DG: So that's the book Managing Oneself. That's all I got.
DC: How much does it cost?
DG: It costs$ 9 and 40 cents. 30 pages. Timeless book. You can read.
DC: Yes. So that's by the homeboy, Peter Drucker. Get that book immediately.
DG: It's also, I've seen it. It's in a lot of airports now.
DG: Yeah, because like a Harvard business publishing crosstalk has this like spinny kind of kiosk thing. And it's there with a lot of the other,
DC: Because it used to dig into crates to get that book.
DG: Probably. Until you start putting it crosstalk.
DC: Until I popularized it, until I told the people about that and got them on their Harvard Business Review. Please send me a gift.
DG: What are you talking about? You're an entrepreneur in residence. Don't you have some connection there? Are they not related?
DC: Yeah, they don't give me any books for being HBR, entrepreneur in residents.
DG: I have a confession.
DG: I hadn't read Total Recall.
DC: What are you talking about? If you go back to the early days of Seeking Wisdom. So good. Dig in the crates. One of the first few book reviews that I ever talked about was the foundation, the fundamental, the Bible, which is Total Recall. Okay. Total Recall, if you don't know, is both the name of a movie, but more importantly, much more importantly, the name of a fantastic book by Arnold Schwarzenegger himself. Okay? And this book, I can't see, this is why you have limiting beliefs-
DG: I can't look at you.
DC: Because he hasn't read this book. This book, Total Recall, buy this book immediately, tell him I sent you.
DG: This is also$9 and 52 cents.
DC: And this is a fantastic, if you're not into reading, this is one of the few fantastic audio books. So you read this or listen to this book.
DG: Does he do it?
DC: Yeah. This is the man-
DG: He does the audio book?
DC: Yeah. This is a man who has manifested, actually I don't remember, I think he does. It's been so many years, but this is a man who's manifested his own destiny. Not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, not five times. Over and over and over again. This is a man who, not to get off on Arnold Schwarzenegger here.
DG: Go ahead, go on.
DC: But this is a man who, when he was in Vienna, Austria as a little boy, at some point decided that he was going to be Mister Olympia, right?
DC: Trained himself every day, became not one- time Mister Olympia, but the greatest Mr. Olympia ever, right? Moved to the United States, could not speak English. Decided while he was training before he was Mister Olympia, before anyone knew him, decided that he wanted learn. He wanted to be a real estate owner, right? In the United States. And he is one of the largest. And what he did was he went out and always seeked out mentors. This is why this is a fundamental book to Seeking Wisdom. So he found a mentor to teach him how to buy real estate, how to sell real estate. And he is still one of the largest real estate owners in Santa Monica, LA. Arnold Schwarzenegger. So he learned that. That and then a lot of his wealth came from that, continues to come from that. Then he decided at some point that he was going to be an actor. And everybody, and he went and he auditioned, he told people about it and they laughed in his face and they say, no one can understand you with that accent. You're never going to be an actor. And they said, you need to change your name. No one can spell that Schwarzenegger name. And you'll never be an actor. What did he do? Once again. He found the best mentors out there, went dedicated, spent years. And he didn't do what most people do today, which is like," oh, that sounds cool, DC, can you send me a link?" You can't even get a link?
DC: Like if you can't even go get the link, you're in trouble, right? crosstalk This guy figured it out. Pre- internet, found a mentor. And again became, as we know a blockbuster hit guy. And even when he was Mr. Olympia, right? One of his things that he tells in the story went, before he became Mister Olympia was that the dig on him was that he had no calves. Right? He had very small calves. And so what did he do? He found a mentor, Reg Park, who had tremendous calves, down in South Africa. Can you imagine that?
DG: Yeah, he was Mr. Universe at the time.
DC: Can you imagine that? He found this guy, this guy's in California, Schwarzenegger, he finds him in South Africa, flies to South Africa, gets this guy to teach him how to build his calves, built up his calves, wins Mister Olympia. Then he also decides," I could go on forever." Arnold Schwarzenegger. Then he decides at some point that he wants to go into politics. Obviously, we know.
DC: In to politics. He decides that he had a dream since he was a little boy, because he saw John F. Kennedy, that he wanted to marry a Kennedy. He married a Kennedy, Maria Shriver.
DG: He did.
DC: Everything this guy has thought about? He's manifested, and he's gone out and not only stumbled upon it, but done the hard work. Put in the" reps and sets," as he said, to make it happen. And he had no leg up on any of that stuff. crosstalk That is a heartfelt testimonial.,
DG: That might be the heaviest review I've seen DC give. So I'm telling you, I didn't read it for a while because-
DC: I can't believe that.
DG: You know why? Because when I look at it,
DC: It's long.
DG: 656 pages. I had not read a book in my life that is that long, combined. But I can't put it down. It's phenomenal.
DC: You're reading it now?
DC: Okay. See? It's about time.
DG: Yes. I'm reading it right now.
DC: See, even when they sit inches from me, it takes this long to get through that thickness of the skull.
DG: I have 7, 000 books at home now. And the problem is I want to read them all. And I look at them all and they're all phenomenal. And I'm all equally excited about them.
DC: And these are limiting beliefs.
DG: Limiting beliefs.
DC: He can't get to them. He's busy.
DG: He can't get to them. We could talk about that-
DC: G2, I hope you don't have any limiting beliefs. All right.
DG: I'm going to bring that book to work.
DC: I want you to leave 6- star reviews.
DC: I've given you too much heat today. I've given you Total Recall, Managing Oneself. I drew on a whiteboard.
DC: I got G2 here filming on multiple cameras. We've got the young nephew here and I need some 6- star reviews or we'll hold those new shows hostage.
DG: What other podcasts talks about dieting learning, growing, careers.
DC: Arnold Schwarzenegger? None.
DC: Just this one. All right. G2, take us out of here.
DG: Also shout out to you, Christopher Lochhead. Appreciate you.
DC: Oh, yeah. Christopher Lockheed. If you've not read his book, we've talked about it before, Play Bigger. He also has a new book, Niche Down. So I've now mentioned, and given you recommendations, on a long list of books here. All curated by myself. 6- star reviews. I hope to see you at Hyper- Growth, September 4th in Boston, September 24th in San Francisco. Come hang with us. If you're lucky, and if you're good, I will introduce you to G2. The man, the myth, the legend, the Venezuelan killer.
DG: See ya.