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Episode 190  |  24:09 min

#140: DC & DG Answer Your Questions Live

Episode 190  |  24:09 min  |  12.17.2018

#140: DC & DG Answer Your Questions Live

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This is a podcast episode titled, #140: DC & DG Answer Your Questions Live. The summary for this episode is: It's a special holiday edition of Seeking Wisdom 🎁 and DC and DG are taking listener questions live. Be sure to check out all the festivities on YouTube. On this episode, DC and DG share their favorite books of the year, provide insights into their daily routines and habits, how we train managers to develop their teams and much more. Be sure to tune in. Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @davegerhardt, @dcancel, @seekingwisdomio.
It's a special holiday edition of Seeking Wisdom 🎁 and DC and DG are taking listener questions live. Be sure to check out all the festivities on YouTube. On this episode, DC and DG share their favorite books of the year, provide insights into their daily routines and habits, how we train managers to develop their teams and much more. Be sure to tune in. Before you go leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and share the pod with your friends! Be sure to check out more insights on the Drift blog at drift.com/blog and find us on Twitter @davegerhardt, @dcancel, @seekingwisdomio.

David Cancel: What's this?

Dave Gerhardt: This is the holiday edition of this episode of Seeking Wisdom.

David Cancel: Fans, we need some more gifts. We're light on gifts here.

Dave Gerhardt: We need gifts.

David Cancel: Please send in some gifts.

Dave Gerhardt: Look, it's DC's living room. How did you guys get the livestream? It's pretty nice.

David Cancel: Shh.

Dave Gerhardt: Hey, alright.

David Cancel: Send some gifts. G2's here, Video Dan is here, Elizabeth is here.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. She's so powerful that you don't even need a nickname. You're just Elizabeth. You can't be video... inaudible.

David Cancel: I know, I can't even... No, it doesn't work. Too classy.

Dave Gerhardt: So, we're doing a special today. We are doing, I have about five pages of listener questions. It's really just going to be me interviewing you for all these questions.

David Cancel: Are we not going to talk about my coat?

Dave Gerhardt: What is it? Your coat.

David Cancel: Okay. I don't have a holiday coat, so I found the coat that I wore for Halloween. Right. It's a little big. This is when DG tries on suits, this is how they fit him.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah.

David Cancel: Huge.

Dave Gerhardt: Is it? Yeah.

David Cancel: Because you know, he's strapping. But I was the Knick’s coach, David Fizdale, as my Halloween costume. It would work if I had my glasses, I forgot them. And so I busted this out for a little celebration.

Dave Gerhardt: I can't wait until Video Dan does the side- by- side with you and Fizdale, because if you haven't seen it, you're going to see it. And you'll be like," Which one is DC?"

David Cancel: I need to put the glasses on.

Dave Gerhardt: It's amazing. And by the way, I'm sitting next to... I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but DC was number one CEO for small and mid- sized companies in USA Today, I saw yesterday.

David Cancel: Wow. I'm going to have to get a subscription.

Dave Gerhardt: And then you and Elias were going back and forth," I love you more, I love you more."

David Cancel: It doesn't feel like anything.

Dave Gerhardt: I think it was cool.

David Cancel: It was cool for a second. But, it's really the team at Drift, has nothing to do with me. It's awesome. It was cool to see one more reason to get your copy of USA Today when you're at a hotel.

Dave Gerhardt: Get your copy of USA Today when you're at a hotel, yeah.

David Cancel: Mm- hmm(affirmative)

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, it reminds me of being in a Holiday Inn in like Orlando or something, a Holiday Inn. So, that's awesome. I thought it was cool, I'll embarrass you in front of everybody else. I'm supposed to do a couple things at this and so maybe I was supposed to do one of them, but we'll do it at the end. We got to record a short intro because what we are doing...

David Cancel: What's that?

Dave Gerhardt: We are bringing the best of Seeking Wisdom 2018. Two- part episode over the next couple of weeks. We're going to have all the hits from the whole year, so if you haven't been subscribed since the beginning of this year...

David Cancel: You can catch up?

Dave Gerhardt: You're going to catch up.

David Cancel: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt: You're going to catch up.

David Cancel: Alright, no excuses then.

Dave Gerhardt: No excuses.

David Cancel: I like it.

Dave Gerhardt: We got the best, the highlights, only the hotness. None of me saying," Um", no fidgeting. All of that cut out.

David Cancel: You cut that out?

Dave Gerhardt: It's only going to be the hotness.

David Cancel: No.

Dave Gerhardt: No, they're busy enough. We got somebody else to do this, don't worry.

David Cancel: She's not cutting it out.

Dave Gerhardt: She's not cutting it out, alright don't cut it out.

David Cancel: She's going to leave it in.

Dave Gerhardt: Alright, here we go. We're going to get into the questions. Okay. First question is from Patrick, Patrick H. You know Patrick H. Shout- out Patrick H.

David Cancel: Okay. Shout it out.

Dave Gerhardt: What was the best marketing experiment you ran this year? Most impactful book from 2018? Marketing experiment, everything is an experiment.

David Cancel: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: What was the most impactful book you read in 2018?

David Cancel: What? On the spot?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah.

David Cancel: Hmm. You know, I don't know there's so many. The one that I think about that I've come back to, so I use that as the litmus test, is The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle. I read that, if you remember, on my sabbatical.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah.

David Cancel: In July of this year. And it led me to read three of his books, that was one of them. The other one was Little Book of Talent, which is a great kind of small book, as the title says.

Dave Gerhardt: A small book, yeah, okay. The Little Book of Talent.

David Cancel: It's a book, a little. That one's good. And there was one other book, I can't remember, Culture Code.

Dave Gerhardt: Culture Code.

David Cancel: Culture Code, Talent Code, and The Little Book of Talent. I read all of those three books because I liked Culture Code so much. So I would go to that book.

Dave Gerhardt: For me, it was a year of going outside of marketing a little bit. I think my favorite book from this year was one you put me on, which was Supermensch, Shep Gordon.

David Cancel: You see, there's too many books.

Dave Gerhardt: No, there is too many. It's too many. It's really just like, let's name a book.

David Cancel: Yeah, yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: And I bought two books just sitting in a meeting with you and Elias yesterday. You both mentioned books, bought them on the spot. So most...

David Cancel: That's a great book, why do you love it? Supermensch.

Dave Gerhardt: I love Supermensch because it just is everything that we talk about so much, which is finding... So it's a cool story. It's fun to read. A lot of business books are not fun to read. It's not a business book, but for me, we talk so much about finding role models and getting inspiration outside of our industry.

David Cancel: Mm- hmm(affirmative)

Dave Gerhardt: I probably took about three to five awesome marketing lessons from that book that we've applied to Drift. Where we talk about, we don't look at other B2B companies. I hate this, I go on a podcast or do speaking and somebody's like, “ Alright, hey before we go Dave, give me an example of a company that you think is great at B2B marketing.” And I say," I'm not trying to be a jerk, but like, I don't know that many because we don't look at them." And so Shep Gordon was a great one.

David Cancel: That was a great one.

Dave Gerhardt: And finally read the Arnold biography, which is great also.

David Cancel: Three years in the making, three years in the making.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, I put that in a backpack.

David Cancel: I gave that to the nephew three years ago.

Dave Gerhardt: It's 700 pages, it's a great book. It's just too many pages.

David Cancel: Elizabeth is judging right now. She's judging.

Dave Gerhardt: What is the...

David Cancel: What did you think of it?

Dave Gerhardt: I thought it was good.

David Cancel: Was it everything there?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. It was good. You told me most of it.

David Cancel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gave you all of it.

Dave Gerhardt: And then I could see the theme, which is how he basically Babe Ruthed the whole book and called the shot through the whole way. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this.

David Cancel: He invented his reality.

Dave Gerhardt: Which is amazing, which is amazing. And I think that is the number one thing is inventing the reality can be true in anything. Like, we're going to launch a new video segment at Drift, it doesn't exist yet. Invent your reality.

David Cancel: Yup. Exactly.

Dave Gerhardt: Just make it. I think that was a great lesson from that. I like this question. What are you proudest of about Drift? Proudest team accomplishment?

David Cancel: Did you put this in there?

Dave Gerhardt: No, I didn't. I didn't. No, this is not supposed to be about me. Not supposed to be about me.

David Cancel: Did Elias put this?

Dave Gerhardt: Elias least put this.

David Cancel: Okay, is that his question?

Dave Gerhardt: What are you proud? What are you proud of?

David Cancel: This year?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. Because think about this, a year ago, you know how many people were at Drift?

David Cancel: 82.

Dave Gerhardt: Oh, okay. That was high, I thought you were going to say like 40, which is not true.

David Cancel: We ended last year at 82.

Dave Gerhardt: Wow. What's it today?

David Cancel: We began last year at 20, so 20 to 82. This year we've gone from 82 to let's say around 260, 255 I think is the last number I heard. But I think we're slightly above that. So we hired this year, new people, 222.

Dave Gerhardt: Crazy.

David Cancel: Crazy.

Dave Gerhardt: It is efficient. I've seen the screenshots, efficient machine.

David Cancel: It's a very efficient machine.

Dave Gerhardt: Camera is running.

David Cancel: They could teach some marketing lessons on the funnel, but very efficient. So, what is my proudest thing this year about the Drift team? Hmm. You know, I think there's so many and we actually had a company meeting this week and we covered a whole bunch of them, I think is that we came together as a team. Right. And many of the teammates were new, but we still came together. There were no walls, no politics, no fiefdoms. And we did the impossible several times this year. I won't go into some of those things, but we did things that were, I considered, impossible. And we did several of those at least this year.

Dave Gerhardt: I think it's back to back years of suspending disbelief.

David Cancel: Yes.

Dave Gerhardt: As you say, right? Which is the truth. For me, it's obviously the team stuff. I think creating this category of conversational marketing is a big one because the only way this works is if it's not about us, it's about the industry. And I think we've seen this big shift of people saying, I want to throw out the playbook. I want to rewrite the rules of how we do this thing, help us get there. I think we're in an awesome time. I wrote this on LinkedIn recently, I said," I think this is going to be the hardest decade for marketers over the next five, 10 years." A decade is 10 years obviously. Because I think marketing is just everything that used to be like new and innovative is now table stakes. Everybody has a blog. Everybody has a podcast. Everybody is doing video. Everybody's on social media. And so I think the companies that are going to try to challenge what's normal and rewrite the playbook are the ones that are going to win.

David Cancel: I think it's even worse than you described in your LinkedIn post, because it's not only... You talked about it from a company context, but every individual whether they're a marketer or not, is creating content as well.

Dave Gerhardt: So true.

David Cancel: Whether it's IG, whether it's video, whether it's podcast, whether it's whatever. They're competing. So it's like it's magnifying.

Dave Gerhardt: And we're coming to this boiling point with content overload that everybody... I saw in the app store the other day, and it was funny because we did this episode about slack. The homepage of the app store was how to turn off your slack notifications.

David Cancel: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: Which is crazy, think about that.

David Cancel: That's crazy.

Dave Gerhardt: That's probably the most popular app in the app store, and Apple is telling you how to use it less.

David Cancel: Less, yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: And I think we're coming to this point where like you deleted a bunch of apps on your phone, right? More people are taking time away from technology. So, you're not going to have everybody glued to their phones over the next, five, 10 years as you've had. And what is that going to change for marketers? I think that's super interesting.

David Cancel: I love that. And just like you said before on the... Nice, that's some old school. Old school, there. That's an old school reference there.

Dave Gerhardt: That's some Letterman.

David Cancel: Letterman reference. For creating the category was the same thing, suspending disbelief. Seemed impossible. Setting the goals like we will for 2019 internally, will seem impossible again. 2018 in the beginning of the year, seemed impossible. 2017 seemed impossible. Every time we set them, we were just like, or set on the idea of creating a category. We were like, this is insane. How do you do this?

Dave Gerhardt: This is a dumb name. Nobody's going to believe this. It's how it always happens. Like you always say, right? Everybody wants to believe it's the overnight success story.

David Cancel: Will Elizabeth and Dan be singing Christmas carols at the end of this episode?

Dave Gerhardt: Oh yeah, no doubt.

David Cancel: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt: If not, we can edit it. We can edit it in.

David Cancel: Okay.

Dave Gerhardt: We can edit that in. We're going to take a little turn into the product and the product side. This is from Scott, shout- out to you, Scott. Long- time listener.

David Cancel: Shout it out.

Dave Gerhardt: I don't answer this one, you can answer this one.

David Cancel: That's a Red Alert reference for all of you back in the day, DJ New York city.

Dave Gerhardt: DJ Red Alert. Deciding to add large features instead of adding small peripheral products, why choose one over the other from a growth perspective? I don't know.

David Cancel: Why add small features versus big features, or the inverse?

Dave Gerhardt: Why add big stuff instead of small stuff.

David Cancel: Hmm. I think, if he's asking this about us...

Dave Gerhardt: It's both.

David Cancel: Okay, it's both. It depends on your product, depends on your market, obviously, whether you should do that. I'll answer it for us, because that's all I know. For us, we've been doing both of those things this year. Depending on the time we will do more small versus big, but we've tried to keep a pace of both. And the reason it made sense for us, is that we are trying to define this category of conversational marketing. The world is trying to define it, but we're trying to help as well. And so we made a lot of big bets to explore as Seth Godin says the edges, like where are the edges of this category in this case? But Seth Godin always says, “ You know, when you're doing something you've got to take it to the edge.” Or, “ You've got to take it to the edge, you've got to understand what are the edge.” And then you can bring it back, but you got to understand what are the constraints that you're working with there.

Dave Gerhardt: Damn, you're good at that. That's a good point. Because if you think about something that's established, like the iPhone or smartphone, smartphones are getting incrementally better every year now. But go back to 2007, the gains from the iPhone one to two, to three, to four, to five, whatever were huge. But now the time is different. The category is there, people know what it is, there's more feature parody.

David Cancel: Totally. And exactly, that's a great example because next year... This year was about exploring the edges. Next we have figured out, we think, what the progression looks like at least in the very short term. And so next year will be less about big stuff like we did this year, at least inside of Drift, and more about the small feature ones, like you said, Scott. So it really depends on your context, really depends on the stage, and what your company is trying to do.

Dave Gerhardt: All right, next question. You guys have a ton of energy and synergy. Thank you. It makes the podcast and absolute joy to listen to. Wow, thanks mom. Tips for achieving these levels of energy without a cohost. It doesn't have to be a podcast, but I feel so much more boring, low energy when I'm recording anything alone.

David Cancel: I don't know if I'm the right person to answer this.

Dave Gerhardt: I'll take this one.

David Cancel: You're good at this.

Dave Gerhardt: I actually almost made a video about this this morning.

David Cancel: That'd be a good video.

Dave Gerhardt: A lot of people say, “ Dave, I've seen your LinkedIn videos, I'm just not comfortable doing them.” And you know what my answer is? Don't do them. I think like this is anything, you have to find, the reason this podcast works for us is because this is what works for us.

David Cancel: And we had these kinds of conversations with our podcasts.

Dave Gerhardt: This is how this whole thing started, is like, what if this was a podcast? Then it became easy to make it a podcast. Same thing with video, it's easy. I'm comfortable looking like a silly guy walking down the street with my phone in my face. Because, it just is natural to me. I think you got to do what feels comfortable to you. Now, if you want to do a podcast, but you have low energy, you got to pick a topic that gets you fired up. Right? Because if you're not, then nobody is going to listen.

David Cancel: Yep.

Dave Gerhardt: And initially you have to have some type of... Look at everybody, look at Gary Vee for example, why does he get people's attention? Because, he comes right out of the gate and feels so energetic. Or Russell Brunson, the way he talks about ClickFunnels gets people so excited. So, it's tough. If that's not your medium, then maybe start an amazing blog and blog daily or start a newsletter and do that daily. It doesn't have to be audio or video.

David Cancel: I love it.

Dave Gerhardt: Who is your... Man, these feel like some of these are spy questions.

David Cancel: They could be. Did we not filter these? Put the spy filter on this.

Dave Gerhardt: Put the spy filter on this. Yeah. This is like a familiar name.

David Cancel: G2, check the IP address on this one. On this question.

Dave Gerhardt: I'm going to have you answer this one anyway. Who is your ideal customer now? And how did you come to the conclusion that's who you wanted to be building for and marketing to? And how important are ICPs, Ideal Customer Profiles.

David Cancel: Again, my answer, what I've learned from all these gray hairs here, is the answer to every question in life is it depends. So, I'm sorry to tell you is it depends.

Dave Gerhardt: It depends.

David Cancel: It depends. So to answer this question, it depends. And it depends on the stage. For us two years ago, as a company, or even a year ago, we weren't ready to define our ICP. Again, like Seth Godin said, we were exploring the edges. We were trying to understand this thing. We came out of this year, we're coming out of this year, I should say, having a very good idea of where our ICP is. And we've only learned that over time, we were comfortable being out there not understanding who our ICP was, but having a point of view on the world and exploring that.

Dave Gerhardt: It's so true. I remember early slides from you was like, do they have a business? Do they have a website?

David Cancel: Do they breathe?

Dave Gerhardt: But that's silly, because I think some people do get so small in like we're going to sell to people that are 5'8" with their flannel shirt on, and a shiny forehead and jeans. And it's like, maybe eventually that's the market, but we would not have been able to learn in the early days if it wasn't wide. And so I think that is related to that question. Why do you think the Ideal Customer Profile is so important for the future of us though?

David Cancel: For the future it's important because of the stage. Again, because we are at a certain stage. We've grown to a certain size, at least in the number of people, and for that many people to have clarity on what they're doing, right? We're out of like the early kind of like single player mode, kind of mode. Where we can all figure this out via osmosis, for all these people to figure out how to prioritize what they're doing. How to not get distracted. How to have the most impact. They have to understand what the target is.

Dave Gerhardt: I think one thing that I love that I didn't expect to be, is you can grab anybody at the company from support, to sales, to engineering. You could say, who is our ideal customer? And they will tell you. Because, it's a part of every company meeting now. It's a part of the company rituals. Like, these are the people that we're trying to sell to.

David Cancel: Yeah. I think the early days it's like improv, if you ever watched Second City. Like, improv, so a small group of us, 10 of us could do an improv, maybe 20 of us could do an improv. Maybe we could even do 50 person improv if we break out into small groups. But doing improv when you're like 250 people, not good. Right? So now we need a script.

Dave Gerhardt: All right. You've shared the... Who is this question from? I don't know, shout- out to you. You've shared how individuals can manage their career in a hypergrowth company. Flipping the switch, how can a manager or leader take an active role in developing their team to achieve hypergrowth? What are tactical things you're doing to make your teams better? So how do you set up managers at Drift to manage the hypergrowth? What are you smiling about?

David Cancel: Yeah, was this a spy question as well? Okay. Just checking, just checking.

Dave Gerhardt: The key is org charts.

David Cancel: Yeah, org charts, that's the key. Next. How do we set up managers to succeed? I mean, we look for certain qualities in the manager or managers, or we try to promote from within when we can. But if we're hiring someone, we're looking at the same qualities that we look for in all the individuals, right? Like this growth mindset, this hunger to learn, this agility, which is super important. This just get it done kind of person. And when they come in here, we work with them. Everyone works with them on the same thing, which is like, can we put our ego to the side? Can we learn? Right. Can we do that over and over and over and get into that uncomfortable space? That's the hardest thing that we work with, we work on, whether it's an individual or managers, no difference. Right. And that's the biggest secret I think to this hypergrowth question.

Dave Gerhardt: I think that's the answer is ego. I think the profile for managers, from manager to director, to VP, to C- level, to whatever, has been you got to be able to do some of the work, no matter the level that you're coming in at. And I think that then shows, and how do you show hypergrowth to the team, it's the Ogilvy stuff that we always talk about. Which is like David Ogilvy would still go and write ads every now and then for the agency, because the agency says, “ Wow, this guy is still great. And he knows his stuff.” And I think the same thing happens from a management perspective. You're just managing, but you don't ever show that you still have the chops. So, I think it's that balance.

David Cancel: I was talking to Dena, who runs people here, shout it out Dena.

Dave Gerhardt: Hi Dena.

David Cancel: She gets lots of likes on the LinkedIn. I was telling her some of the biggest misses we've made from a hiring standpoint, like in our history and the biggest misses to me every single time was we didn't spot the ego. Ego always got in the way, it was big. There's been other issues, but that's been the biggest one. It's also the source of all of our biggest mistakes. All the sources of all my mistakes. The big mistakes, always ego.

Dave Gerhardt: Ego. Ego is the enemy. Okay, internal marketing, what are the rules... Shout-out to you, Vivek, what are the rules of this new game? In other words, how do you master this with every other feature release? How do you really figure if what you're doing is working or not, what is good? I'm going to take this one.

David Cancel: Yeah, yeah. This is all you.

Dave Gerhardt: Internal marketing, we can talk for hours about this. I actually think this is the most underrated channel as a marketer or a product manager. Because, I just have such a strong belief that if you can't get the people inside of your company fired up about the thing that you're doing, how on Earth are thousands or millions of people that don't work here and drink the Kool- Aid all day going to get involved? And so we care so much about storytelling, even if it's internal, especially when it's internal. And actually, I get more nervous presenting in front of the company than I do in front of other people that I don't know.

David Cancel: Yep, same.

Dave Gerhardt: Because the stakes are higher, I feel like people know you and people are expecting some type of response. So, the answer is we just care a lot about internal marketing and we have this ritual of show and tell with the team on Friday where the company, basically, everybody gets in a room and each team kind of shows that they did. And it used to kind of just be like, you get up, you share a bunch of things. Now, it's a real thing. You people take it very seriously and I love that because I think it's an opportunity to get up in front of the company and really be an advocate for this thing. And I just care a lot about internal communication from how you communicate on slack, to how you write emails, to how you write internal Wiki posts, to how you make videos for the company to how you present internally. I think that stuff separates you from a lot of people inside in the company.

David Cancel: Yeah. The only thing I would add is it starts with hiring. If you don't hire the people who are going to come in, be excited about what you're doing and maybe have this propensity to want to share, because they're so excited about what's going on, it's never going to work.

Dave Gerhardt: It's never going to work. All right, we're almost there. This is great. I'm having a good time doing this.

David Cancel: Elizabeth doesn't seem thrilled though.

Dave Gerhardt: She doesn't, no. There's a lot happening. There's a lot happening. They have to hear us talk so much though.

David Cancel: Can you imagine editing? Oh my goodness.

Dave Gerhardt: Maybe we'll talk about that later. Yeah, that'd be a tough gig.

David Cancel: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: What are your... DC, what is your daily routine lately? Do you have any simple habits that you want to suggest?

David Cancel: You know, I'm a man of habits.

Dave Gerhardt: You are. What's the flavor right now?

David Cancel: I'm back, Michelle Balaban, shout it out.

Dave Gerhardt: Michelle.

David Cancel: Yeah. First shout- out on the show. A marketing designer on the team inspired me the other day because she was starting to do 25 days consecutively of yoga for this month. And I was like, you know what? I'm going to get back to yoga. As you know, I used to do 18 minute practice for 400 and something days consecutively.

Dave Gerhardt: His addictive personality at work.

David Cancel: Yes. And then it broke one day. It involved the Las Vegas trip, we won't get into that on the show. And it's been broken ever since. But, I've been back on, I think I'm... I forgot how many days I'm at. Two weeks so far.

Dave Gerhardt: Nice.

David Cancel: I'm on that. I'm back to yoga. So, early in the morning yoga, start the day that way, read. So my practice has stayed the same. I added back yoga. I read, make coffee, hang out with kids. Then I start the day.

Dave Gerhardt: Love it. I love that you're back on the yoga kick. That's good, that's good.

David Cancel: I got it. I got to get back in doing those reps and sets. Got to get back on the iron.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah, I like that, get back in it.

David Cancel: Steel is real.

Dave Gerhardt: I made a change in my...

David Cancel: Why is G2 laughing?

Dave Gerhardt: The steel is real, that was good. The steel is real.

David Cancel: That's a Henry Rollins quote. You would like Henry Rollins. Okay.

Dave Gerhardt: I went through a little drought with consistently reading, because I just could not physically find the time in the day. And I know that's an excuse. So then what I did is...

David Cancel: Biggest mistake you made.

Dave Gerhardt: I've always been I got to read physical books. It's just how I am, I want to take notes. The last month I switched to audio books because I walk to work and that gives me 15, 20 minutes on the way there. 15, 20 minutes on the way home. So I'm like, wait a second. That's 40 minutes every single day that I could be reading. I don't have 40 minutes to sit down and read. I've just been crushing audio books.

David Cancel: And what do you think of it?

Dave Gerhardt: It's amazing. It's such a different, because you know me...

David Cancel: It's a very different experience.

Dave Gerhardt: Neurotic, note taker, list taker, fidgeting, writing everything down. I don't take notes, because it's an audiobook. And I'm retaining just as much information.

David Cancel: It's a breakthrough.

Dave Gerhardt: Which is a crazy learning experience for me. You could ask me what book are you reading right now, and I could tell you everything, and I haven't written one note down about it. So that's really cool.

David Cancel: You're learning the key, the grasshoppers.

Dave Gerhardt: Which is so funny because, go back, read Managing Oneself and Drucker. And what does he say? He says that there's two types of ways people learn, right? They learn by writing and they learn by listening. And maybe I'm learning that I'm actually more of an audio, whatever the heck the name is, right? I can learn more by listening than I thought. So it's pretty cool.

David Cancel: That's awesome. That's a huge breakthrough.

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. So it's good.

David Cancel: Alright. Any more questions?

Dave Gerhardt: Okay, there's one more. No, actually I want another one. That's a high note, let's end on a high note. There's so many of them, they're all good.

David Cancel: Yeah.

Dave Gerhardt: Look, one thing that we were supposed to do at the beginning of this episode, which I failed to do, was plug the hottest new podcast out right now, which is called Build.

David Cancel: Okay. The Built podcast.

Dave Gerhardt: By Maggie.

David Cancel: So, if you search for Build Drift, two words, it will come right up to the top.

Dave Gerhardt: Gail wrote, here's your plug. Gail wrote to me, “ In intro to the show, please include a promo shout- out for Build, and ask for listeners to search for and subscribe to Build wherever they get their podcasts.”

David Cancel: Yeah, and leave a six star rating.

Dave Gerhardt: And leave a six star rating. So, please do that. It's an amazing show. I'm so excited about the future, and what we have. We have so many shows, and I think we're just starting to get into the rhythm of how they all work, and where they go, and what we do with them. And Maggie's done an amazing job with Build, and she had me on the podcast, which is cool.

David Cancel: Is that why she got a shout out?

Dave Gerhardt: Yeah. Ego.

David Cancel: Alright.

Dave Gerhardt: Take us out, this is going to be the last official time...

David Cancel: Happy Hanukah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, whatever you celebrate. It's the end of the year.

Dave Gerhardt: It's all love.

David Cancel: 2019, it's all love. I like that. It's all love. 2019, we're coming strong, we're coming for you. Be ready to learn, be ready to grow. Rest up. Long 2019 ahead of us.

Dave Gerhardt: Video Dan, G2, Elizabeth, you all are amazing. Thank you.

David Cancel: Even you, G2, are amazing.

Dave Gerhardt: I salute you, bye.

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