#151: The Power Of Keeping A Beginner's Mindset (Bonus: Copywriting Lessons From DC & DG)
DG: All right, DC, we're back.
DC: We're back?
DC: All right, I'm here. I sound a little nasally. I got a little congestion. Not a full-
DG: Usually, the nasal comes on this side of the podcast.
DC: Yeah, that's true. It does. Been traveling a lot. But I haven't been using the antibacterial, like the young nephew. So something must have... I'm disappointed in myself. I let weakness enter my body. And if I was Jacko, I would be able to will this weakness out of my body.
DG: Can you recap? Recap your travel. You had some secret stuff. But then you were on... I saw you. I was not here. I was somewhere else. You were on stage at Adobe Summit. How was that experience?
DC: First, I was in... it was a tale of two worlds. I was at a high- end CEO event.
DG: It looked very high end. I said, " This is not where I stay when I go to San Francisco."
DC: Half Moon Bay, if you know. Half Moon Bay, lovely place, beautiful. But the only downside of it... beautiful views on the ocean, super almost uncomfortable high- end hotel for me. But not fully uncomfortable. It still felt good.
DG: Yeah, it was still like you could sleep okay.
DC: Yeah, I slept okay. But in the middle of nowhere. You have to drive through a mountain pass, have to go here, one lane here. Go this, that, whatever. I was nauseous on the way.
DG: Which is tough because then you're like, "I'm going to get breakfast," or, " I got to get food. I got to get coffee. Where do you go?"
DC: There's no place. The Starbucks, I had to call an Uber. It costs$ 17, Uber ride one way to go get a Starbucks. That's how in the middle of nowhere I was. And, do you know how, in most hotels, they have a gift shop?
DC: This hotel has nothing. You cannot buy anything. I'm like, " I cannot buy..." even if I wanted to, I do not eat them. If I wanted to buy the proverbial Snickers bar, I'd have to spend$ 20 on an Uber to get a-
DG: Proverbial Snickers bar.
DC: There's nothing in this hotel. But the reason I mentioned it, it was beautiful, nice. It's really meant for people to play golf. And I don't play golf.
DG: I saw that.
DC: Oh, yeah. You would have liked this place.
DG: No, I need a couple more years. I'm not ready crosstalk.
DC: And then I jump on a plane halfway through the week, fly out to Vegas. And then all of a sudden, within a couple of hours, I'm in a place where I can buy anything. And when I say" anything", I mean anything in this planet, right? If I want fresh shrimp that has been fished up, netted that day, no joke, you can get it delivered that day. They just got it out of the sea that day and it's already in Vegas. I don't know how they get it there.
DG: That's not even close to the coast.
DG: It's kind of close.
DC: It's the middle of nowhere. And they have fresh clams from where I live that had just been caught that day and they fly it out there.
DG: So they could get a clam from Essex, Mass, to Vegas in one day. However, any flight to Vegas is never... you can never get a flight like that.
DC: No, I don't know how they do it. It's magic. I was shellshocked because I was like, " I can't get anything. Now I can get everything. It's 24/7, it's going, it's nuts." But I went there for the Adobe Summit. Amazing, 16, 000 people. Got on stage to announce this deeper partnership, a new product, conversational ABM that we launched with Marketo. People were into it.
DG: You got a lot of comments about your sneakers. I was happy.
DC: Had to wear the Js.
DG: I didn't even say anything. You brought the Jordan 4s out-
DC: The 4s with the gold.
DG: ...which is proper. You got a lot of comments about that.
DC: Most people said, the best part of my talk was my sneakers. I don't know what that says.
DG: So you were on stage with Steve Lucas, who is the CEO of Marketo, now has some other role at Adobe, big role. Did you feel like... did he bring your energy up? That guy is an electric speaker.
DC: Oh, electric speaker.
DG: I watched his keynote before. And I was like, "Man." And I could tell he brought you up a little bit.
DC: Oh, he brought me up. He was just pumping it up. He was pumping it up so much by the time I got on stage, it was amazing. And got to spend a lot of time with him and the Marketo team backstage. Also, got to hang and meet CEO of Adobe. Pretty good, $ 150 billion in market cap.
DG: Adobe did ... they did$ 9 billion in revenue last year.
DC: Yeah, that's pretty good.
DG: That's pretty good. You know what's funny? Adobe was one of those things where... I think we do a lot of cool stuff. But there is certain companies that we do stuff with or get attached to that the team lights up more. Adobe was one because everybody at Drift uses Adobe.
DC: G2 knows, he uses it.
DG: The whole creative team was like, " What? We're doing something with Adobe." That was a next level.
DC: Yeah. Shantanu, who's the CEO of Adobe, amazing, Yoda- like, humble man. I think he's been running that company for 10 years, been there for a long time since'91. Amazing, humble leader.
DG: That's crazy. All right, well, I'm glad you're back because we can make more shows.
DC: I'm back temporarily because I'm heading to Punta Cana.
DG: Oh, yeah. President's Club.
DC: Yeah, President's Club. We have President's Club here. Against my will, we have President's Club here at Drift. And I have to go to Punta Cana, which I have not on my list. But everybody's excited.
DG: It's not on your list. I think it's cool, the way we did President's Club, though. It's cool to see people that are not in sales going on the trip.
DC: Yeah, we flipped it.
DG: And you can tell people are excited.
DC: Do you think Michelle's excited?
DG: We've been talking to Michelle all week, trying to crosstalk.
DC: I cannot tell if she's excited or not excited.
Speaker 3: inaudible.
DC: It's a mystery.
DG: I think she's secretly excited. I think she's going to have a good time.
DC: Yeah, I don't know. Can you drink the water? Do I need mosquito shots there? What's going on?
DG: Mosquito shots.
DC: No, you'll be okay.
DG: Talk to Becky.
DG: All right, so today we're going to talk about this concept of the beginner's mindset, okay?
DG: And this came up because of something that you tweeted out. So we put out this new Drift Insider lesson, which I want to talk to you about a little bit later. We put out this new Drift Insider lesson. And you tweeted it out, right? And then our guy, our friend, Lucas Walker, who is @ WalkerLucas on Twitter, shout out to you Lucas. He said, " How many tricks were in this tweet? I can spot four." And, basically, he dissected your tweet. And he found eight marketing lessons inside of this tweet.
DC: Yeah, it was amazing because, to back up, I had sent out a tweet. And I had basically modified some copy that probably you wrote there or someone on the team wrote. But I had added some stuff to it. And I tweeted out us announcing this Insider course, Drift. com/ Insider. And if you're not on there, I'm not sure what you're doing.
DG: That's crazy. By the way, speaking of Drift Insider, while this podcast is being filmed, we are filming B- roll for the next Insider video that you'll see at some point after this. We're going to take you into the studio and we're going to show everybody exactly how we make Seeking Wisdom. We'll take you through all the gear. Everything from pre- production to how we do this, to all the gear we use, the software we use, editing, all the marketing of it. It's going to be crazy. If you listen to this podcast and you want to see behind the scenes, that's going to be up on Drift Insider as a future lesson.
DC: Okay, let's add one thing to that crosstalk video.
DG: What is that?
DC: We will show one quarter of G2's face for the first time ever. We don't want to show the full face because we don't want him to get his head too big. We show one quarter, okay. If he continues to grow, then we show half. And then we show three quarters. And then one day, we'll reveal the whole face.
DG: It's like an eclipse.
DC: So you'll probably see part of an eye on this. Okay, so look for that in the video. But I did tweet this. Back to this tweet, I tweeted this out. And Lucas Walker, who we met in Toronto, part of our Toronto army.
DG: Toronto is so deep, the love. We took one trip to Toronto and the rewards from that are...
DC: Drift army is strong in Toronto and in Indianapolis, a place that G2 loves.
DG: Shout out to you, Kenny. I know you're still listening.
DC: Yeah. And so he took my tweet and he was able to do something that I had not seen most marketers in the world, not even marketers within our own team be able to do. And he was able to break down, and take the learnings that he's actually taken from this here podcast, and apply them, which is the hard part, and say, " Here's why, I think, this tweet worked and what kind of triggers you had in this tweet." He was right on all of them. But, I guess, I've been reading this stuff for so long and looking at it that I didn't realize. It wasn't like I was trying to add all those in there.
DG: No, you probably wrote the tweet on your phone, walking to get coffee-
DC: Yeah, I did.
DG: ... because itjust is programmed now.
DC: Yeah, it's just programmed in there, muscle memory. And then he was able to diagnose it. And, do you want to go through what he was able to pick out?
DG: Yeah, so I want to talk about that. So DC's tweet, I'll read it. " I just learned five tricks for writing irresistible copy for my friend @ RyanDeiss on the latest @ DriftInsider course. If I can only recommend one copywriting video, this is the one. Trust me, get access to their free video here." So Lucas goes, " Number one is'just'." The word" just" creates urgency. Number two is" learn". " Learn" creates curiosity. Number three is" irresistible". That's$ 100 word. I guess, that's a Scrabble joke or something like that. But it's a great word, " irresistible". Four, " for my friend". It creates trust and validity, right? This is my friend, Ryan. I'm only giving you the best stuff. I know this is good because I know Ryan, okay? Number five, " Insider". The name" Drift Insider" alone, which is why we named it that, makes it feel exclusive because it is. This is not content that's available to the world publicly, right?
DG: Number six, " Only one course". In DC's tweet, he said, " If I can recommend only one course," right? This is when... you ever go to a restaurant and the whole menu looks amazing? And the waiter says, " Look, I know everything looks good here. But trust me, get this one." That is what DC did in that tweet, right? You said, "Trust me, I'm going to pick out the good stuff for you." Seven, you said, " Trust me," right? You already said that from a credible source because if it's not good, people are going to come back and tweet at you and give you a hard time about it.
DG: And then" free", number eight, the most powerful word. He said, " free." I love that. So that was the dissection of it, which is pretty... so this, to me, is... every book you've fed me over the last couple years is this tweet, right?
DC: Yeah, these two tweets alone, if you see the before and then you see the breakdown of this tweet, the teardown of this tweet, that's all you need to know.
DG: Yeah, and I don't want you to be listening to this and be like, " Oh, these guys are talking about marketing." If you can unlock this lesson, you will be a better product manager. You will be a better designer. You'll be better at sales because you can write better emails, right?
DG: This is the number one... I literally just did a marketing podcast on this topic before. And you and I, you don't know this, but you're going to teach a copywriting course, 201 level, next week.
DC: Okay, 201 level.
DG: Yeah, the 101 level was free. 201 level is not free.
DC: Okay, 201.
DG: But, I think, this is the most underrated skill in all of business.
DC: Totally, this works in everything. This works internally in your career. This works, obviously, if you're in sales. The only place this doesn't work, you ready for this? The only place, and Dave has found this out, G2 hasn't found it out yet in life, is this does not work with children because there is no persuasion ever made. Have you learned that from Annie yet?
DC: There is no persuasion. You can say no words.
DG: Last night, she was crying. She went to sleep and she woke up crying, middle of the night.
DC: Yeah, normal.
DG: Leah's like, " You go in there." I go in. Annie's... she's not talking yet, but she's just saying words. And she keeps pointing at something. I can't understand what she wants, what she needs. We're just both going crazy. For two hours, we couldn't. So none of the persuasion and copywriting stuff I learned works on anyone under the age of 11.
DC: No. Even my daughter's 13, none of these words work. There's not one word here that... if you have found out a word that works, please email me and let me know what word they are to use.
DG: So to bring this back to the bigger theme of Seeking Wisdom, so we post this in our marketing Slack channel. And Gail says, she says, " Hey, this would be a great episode." And your next tweet was, " Most marketers will go a career without figuring this out. 99% of the marketers that I've met in my career don't know what Lucas figured out. P. S. if you believe you're in the 1%, it's highly unlikely. Good news, you can start learning now by watching this video." So Gail sees that and she says, " You guys should do a podcast," because the ultimate lesson here, and this is where I want you to take us home, is the beginner's mindset.
DC: Yes, and I wrote something for my newsletter. I won't give out the URL. You should know by now.
DG: Reverse marketing.
DC: Yeah, reverse marketing. You're not allowed to learn the URL. What he showed here was a beginner's mindset because most marketers, most salespeople, most professionals, although this will help everyone in life, but most professionals would just read that tweet and would not know why it worked, would just say, " Oh, it's just a tweet. Let me check out the video," whatever. They didn't stop at this beginner's mindset and say, " Why is he saying these words? What works about what he's saying? Is there something that I can learn in the message that he's posting?" So almost everyone would skip that over. So here's the trap. The more experience you have, the more likely you are to ignore this. And so that's why you have to have the beginner's mindset. I think it's the most powerful thing ever.
DG: And, I think, that unlocks a different thing. If you have the beginner's mindset, you might be standing in line at the grocery store, looking at a rack of magazines, and find the National Enquirer, which everybody is, " Oh, that's trash." But you might have, " Wait, why did they put that headline?"
DC: Why does it work?
DG: Why does it work, right? I also heard something. I was listening to something today and they talked about any ancient Chinese, Japanese martial arts, the process of bowing to your opponent. Do you know why you bow to your opponent?
DG: Because they are going to teach you something. So you're bowing to them in honor of, " Hey, I'm bowing to you because you're about to help me get better whether I win or lose."
DC: By putting a beating on me. I love it.
DG: Right, if I win, I'm going to know why I won. If I lost, I'm going to know where I need to get better. And, I think, the beginner's mindset encompasses all that. And it's also why we talk about feedback, right? I think that is the key to feedback is, when you can learn it, you realize... I'll be honest. Has it been easy to get all this feedback over the last three and a half years? Hell, no. But, am I a hundred times better at marketing than I was three and a half years ago? My god, yes.
DC: Minimum. You just made me think of something. G2 often tells me that he's writing a book called Anticipating Feedback, which is a autobiography that tells of his time with me because he deals with so much feedback. I will humbly request that in the inside cover of that book when you write it, you have exactly what DG just told us and have a picture of a martial artist bowing, yourself. A picture of you-
DG: That's the cover.
DC: Actually, I don't want a picture. I want G2 in a karate kimono, bowing to this, and say, " DC, thank you for these lessons that I'm about to learn." That is the feedback prayer, please.
DG: Okay, can we wrap up?
DC: Let's wrap up. I'm about to drop a bomb on Seeking Wisdom.
DG: You're going to drop a bomb?
DG: Okay, I was going to tell you a story. But I'm going to save it for later because, I think, we should do a whole podcast on Uncle Jerry at some point.
DC: Oh, okay. Save that. That's too much gold there. But what I'm about to say might affect that. I'm about to drop a bomb here. Are you ready?
DC: Okay, no. I have not talked to anyone here beforehand.
DG: Per usual.
DC: Per usual, per norm here. I woke up last night in the middle of the night and I had a thought. Okay, people, get ready. I hope you're not swerving in traffic. I hope you're at a stoplight right now. Here it is, anticipated feedback. I believe, that Seeking Wisdom's over.
DG: It's over?
DC: It's over.
DG: Oh, wow. What have you seen?
DC: I think the 201 is our last episode.
DG: Wow, we might have to talk about this. But I like it, okay. Go ahead.
DC: Okay, and the reason I think that is because, I think, we've graduated to the next level. And, I think, we now have a network of shows that we have out there that we are putting our focus in on. And we think the next level is video. And we are moving most of our teachings to Drift Insider. And so if you want to learn the next lessons, they're all going to be on Drift Insider. That's where we're going to put the highest quality content. But we will continue the other individual show podcasts. They're super important. They go into deep, functional areas. But they will be all augmented by Insider. That's the bomb I'm dropping. This might be the last episode you hear of Seeking Wisdom.
DG: I love the bomb because, I actually think, this is going to allow us to say more than we've been able to say.
DC: And, I think, we can go deeper than we've been able to do by adding video. So that's the bomb that I woke up in the middle of the night thinking that I'm sharing with all of you today.
DG: This is great.
DC: DG does not know any of this. G2 certainly does not know, anyone. This is the first time ever. You're hearing it here. This might be the end of Seeking Wisdom. It wasn't because I didn't get enough six- star reviews.
DG: I thought crosstalk say that.
DC: That might have something to do with it. You know it influences. It hurts. I'm only a man.
Speaker 3: La Croix didn't come through with the sponsorship.
DC: Yeah, that's true. La Croix didn't sponsor.
DG: Athletic Greens.
DC: Athletic Greens failed us repeatedly. It wasn't because of all those things. Although, they hurt a little because I'm just a man. So inaudible.
DG: Just one person.
DC: One person.
DG: All right, so maybe we'll see you soon.
DC: Maybe not.
DG: Maybe not.
DC: Anyway, leave a six- star review. Hit us up, Drift. com/ Insider. Whether or not we come back or not, that is where the best content that we are producing by far is going to go. And it's a free account. Sign up free.
DG: I got a message from somebody today that said, " Hey, just watched..." they only watched one. There's five videos in there right now. They said, " This is like getting an MBA."
DC: Yeah, and that's what we want. So we've always wanted to share the stuff that we're learning. And this is a good format. I love podcasts. But, since we basically invented B2B podcasting-
DG: We did.
DC: You know everyone's got a podcast now.
DG: We did. I hope somebody tweets you on that and tries to say that we didn't because, I think, we changed the game.
DC: Oh, okay. And we changed the game. And that's actually a line from... if you can tell me where that line is, it's from a famous podcast from 12 years ago. If you can tell me where that line is from, you win a prize.
DG: Hold on, this is what I wanted to show you. This is from Nick Wilkinson. Shout out to you, Nick." The Drift Insider content is very well done. It feels like I'm getting an MBA- level education every episode. Blogs, podcasts, and social media are now the first- touch connections when it comes to community building. Things like Drift Insider are the new way to capture raving fans and turn them into raving customers. Respect."
DC: Nice, I love it. Since we started this game, everyone's got a B2B podcast now. Now it's time to take it to the next level. And we want to bring you, the community, with us. And we want to share everything we're learning even at a deeper level. And we want to keep G2 very busy.
DG: Love it, see you maybe.
DC: All right, take care. See you.