21: The New One Minute Manager
Speaker 1: Yo, yo, yo.
David: Let's go. There is sound here.
Speaker 1: Sound going.
David: Today on Seeking Wisdom, we're going to do a book review and today we're reviewing, The One Minute Manager.
Speaker 1: What's up?
David: All right. So we want to do something new because we know we talk about books a lot on this podcast, we read a lot. We want Seeking Wisdom to be about learning and growing and so we're going to start doing some book reviews. And the first one we're going to do is about a book, you sent it to me probably a week ago, you sent me a link. You said," This is a good one". You're kind of like the curator for me. It's called, The One Minute Manager is published in 2003 by a guy named Kenneth Blanchard. And it's one of those good books because it's like a hundred pages long.
Speaker 1: Mm- hmm( affirmative).
David: Short. You just bang it out. Kind of like Managing Oneself, reminded me a lot of that book.
Speaker 1: Super similar to that. And what we're viewing is the new One Minute Manager in 2003, it's based on the original which was just called The One Minute Manager. Don't know when that was published, but it's an very old book.
David: Yeah. All right. So anyway, you might be listening right now and you're like, I didn't read this book yet, I don't need to listen to this episode. But we have a little something to keep you going. So whether you've read this book, haven't read this book, we're going to do a little something different. So all we need to do is, while you're listening to this episode, take a screenshot on your phone of you listening to Seeking Wisdom in your favorite podcast app, and then tweet at us @ drift, send us a tweet that you're listening and the first five people to do that, we're going to buy you the book and we're going to mail it to you. So you have a copy of the book and then you can go with the review and we're going to do more of that in the future. So-
Speaker 1: Damn. That's hot Dave.
David: That's pretty good, right?
Speaker 1: That's pretty good. I like it.
David: It's pretty good. We're going to buy some books for people. So take a screenshot tweet at us @ drift with this episode, and first five people do that, we're going to send you a book.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
David: All right. Let's get into this. I don't know. Where should we start, basically kind of three main lessons.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm super excited because next few episodes we're going to try expanding into some new areas because I think we've been talking about it and we think Seeking Wisdom is more than just about technology and startups and the stuff that we've been talking about because we talk so much about personal growth in across all different areas around health, around wealth, then work and around love and family and all of the different areas that we can focus in on and we want to grow in. We often talk about those things but we haven't done episodes about them. And so we to kick off now and do episodes around books, around some other areas that we're trying to grow in. So I don't know. I'm getting super excited.
David: That's good. Yeah. We don't want to be a tech podcast.
Speaker 1: No.
David: We want to talk about other stuff. So I liked this one because it was told as a story. So that kind of brought me in right away. It's told from the perspective of somebody who wants to learn all these lessons and there's this wise manager in there. The manager kind of remind me of you. There's this one guy asking for advice and like, you don't always get the answer, but you get a mission or a story.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
David: So basically the book was split up into three sections, which are kind of three lessons basically. And the first one is about setting goals together, why the manager and the employee need to create goals together. And it's something that you talk about a lot. Why does actually sitting down and setting a goal together versus you be like, hey, here's your goal, go do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's important for the same reason that I always think that learning about personality types, learning about differences in people are important. It's because we often, almost every day, each of us make the mistake of assuming that we know what the other person that we're talking to, or the other people that we're talking to know and think, and that they're thinking the same way that we are, and that's almost always never the case. And so this is a way kind of a little habit that you can pick up of like, let's sit down together, we're going to go over it. And as soon as you do that, and this happens to us each day, as soon as you actually do that with someone, then you notice like, oh, we were totally thinking two different things.
Speaker 1: We were not on the same page. I hate saying not on the same page, by the way, it sounds like an office space kind of thing.
David: But it's not just about being on the same page. That's one, but it's also it's just shared ownership of this goal.
Speaker 1: Yes.
David: You're not like the manager isn't just dictating like, hey employee, here's your goal.
Speaker 1: Yep.
David: You sit down together and have a conversation about the role and responsibilities, and then you set a goal. And then the thing that you always mentioned, like ownership...
Speaker 1: Yep and autonomy, right? So as soon as you go through this process, this magical thing happens in this conversation where the person feels ownership and they feel some level of autonomy of like, they feel kind of empowered by you or by the other person to own this goal and to go out and kind of think of different ways that get creative on how to solve this goal. It's so subtle and so it sounds so simple, but this is what happens every time like you sit down and all of a sudden their goal becomes your goal. And all of a sudden your goal becomes the thing that you're shooting for and the thing that you're focused on, and all of a sudden, then you're putting extra energy, then you're really getting creative. And then you feel happiness when you actually hit that goal.
David: And it's actually like a of things that we've talked about managers and employees, it's like the best relationships are the shared ones, like from one- on- ones and understanding as an employee that the one- on- one meeting is not for your manager to come to you and tell you what you need to be working on...
Speaker 1: Yep.
David: ...it's the reverse. And so setting goals together was important thing. The other thing that I liked is, so they talk about set goals together, but each goal needs to be really short.
Speaker 1: Yes.
David: Like one note card. One really simple point. And I know this is something I was started to learn from you, is like it's not always about having the best plan. You don't need to plan it. You just need a couple bullet points of like, what are the focus areas?
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm(affirmative). Yeah. I like that idea. I think in the book, he talks about, it needs to fit on one page, but I like your version better which is like, it should just fit on one note card, like an index card.
David: Yeah. That was a part that I didn't like. I didn't like having one page for every goal because goals change all the time. I might have a yearly goal about career development, a quarterly goal related to the team, a monthly goal related to what I want to get done this month, but...
Speaker 1: So I like that idea. Fits on a note card, it's super simple, fits on a note card, you can literally carry it with you if you wanted to, or you could do the digital version of a note card. If it's on a note card, you're more capable of kind of memorizing what's on there, remembering everything that's on there. And then you have this one thing that you can look at each day and know what you're shooting for. I love that whole thing. And one thing that I like about the book is, like you said, it's told in this story kind of parable, right? If you've ever read like old stories or the Bible or whatever, it's just full of parables, just like this one. So you can relate, right? We love storytelling as humans, we relate to stories. So it's a good way to learn. And then the other thing that I like about it is just, it gives you three tactical things you can focus on as a manager, especially if you're a new manager or an old manager, whatever, just three things you can focus on with your team, with the people that you're working with that can lead you in the right direction. So it's not overwhelming like most business books. It's not going to give you a hundred different things and case studies and whatever. Just three simple things you can focus on to make you a better manager.
David: Right. It'd be interesting to see everybody that's read this book, like their notes, because this is one of the few books where I bet you everybody's notes are the same...
Speaker 1: Yes.
David: Because the point of the book is there's three lessons. Number one is set goals together. We just talked about that. Number two is praise early. We'll talk about that in a second. And then the third thing is re- direct when wrong.
Speaker 1: Yes.
David: So let's go back to number two for a second which is, praise early.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm(affirmative).
David: This one completely changed my perspective on giving feedback. As somebody who's managing people for the first time, the time to speak up isn't when somebody has done something wrong.
Speaker 1: And that's what everyone does.
David: Yeah. Because it's easier to point that out, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
David: It's easier to be like, oh, I didn't like this, here's how it should be better. But instead the opposite of that is like, look for the first thing that you see, right. Even if it's so small and find that.
Speaker 1: Yes. And praise that. When you hear that then you start to think of all different areas in your life where you're told the same thing, but you don't relate it back to business. This is probably a bad analogy, but if you ever get a dog, one of the things that you're taught pretty early, not that people are dogs, I'm not saying that, but is to praise good behavior, right? Instead of reprimanding a bad behavior so you want to reinforce the good behavior, and that's exactly what this lesson is. I love it, which is like, especially for a new manager or you're managing a new person where you want to spend the bulk of your time kind of one- on- one with them or spending time working daily with them is in the beginning. Because you want to set the patterns correctly and you want to reinforce all that good behavior in the beginning versus letting them kind of sink on their own in the beginning and then jump-
David: Always negative.
Speaker 1: Always negative and then jumping in and saying, you did this wrong, you did that wrong. You did that wrong.
David: Yeah. And you almost have more room to give someone harder feedback if you're usually complimenting them, if that's your approach first, is like praise first and then hey, but here's some that you can work on.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that part of the book, which I don't know if he brought it up in this part or he brought it up in the redirect part.
David: Yeah. That is the redirect part.
Speaker 1: Okay.
David: Yeah. So one more... So it's funny, your story, in the book there's actually a story about a dog. And the guy uses his example. He's like, he shares and he's like, my friend got a dog, and dog took a shit on the rug. So they took the dog's nose and put it in the shit and then threw the dog out the window. And the next time the dog shit on the floor, the dog just sprinted out of the house because he thought that that's the behavior.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Try to jump out the window.
David: Yeah. Try jump out the window. Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
David: It's exactly that. So yeah. So it's praise early. So set goals, praise early, and then the last one is redirect. Want you to with that one.
Speaker 1: The redirect was great. One thing that he said in the redirect...
David: Actually wait, explain what he means by redirect. It's like a critical feedback or...
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry. So by the way that he described redirect or the way that I interpreted redirect was that, when you start out managing someone it's better to start out... Harsh is not the right word, be more strong in the beginning and then let up and become friendlier over time. And again, I think we all do this incorrectly as managers, we all start out as super friendly guy. And then over time when someone does something wrong, then we get pretty negative about it. And then the person is thrown off because they don't know which version of us they're going to get.
David: And the great example, the great story he tells him this book is like, there was these two emperors.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that one.
David: One of them was one of them was always the jerk, always the one telling everybody people were wrong. The other one was the emperor that gave out gifts and praise people. And they asked people which one they liked better and they said it was the guy who was always praising people.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
David: And then after a couple of months they had them switch roles. And so the nice guy was now the hard- ass and the hard- ass was now the nice guy. And guess which one they liked better. Right? The person that was always giving them praise. And so they said, oh wow, David's really changed.
Speaker 1: While he was the guy who originally was the hard- ass who then became nicer...
Speaker 1: ...isthe one that they liked.
David: And they're like, oh, he's really changed his way.
Speaker 1: And they hated the king, who was the guy who started out nice but became a hard- ass later.
Speaker 1: And so you want to be someone who is hard for the right reasons in the beginning, and then over time you're building up a better and better relationship. So things are kind of progressing, right? They're getting better over time versus being someone who's seen as erratic, who is happy most of the times, except for when you do something wrong and then they get really negative or really strict about that.
David: And the other thing I feel, this is something that you do to me...
Speaker 1: Uh-oh.
David: ...which is like, if something...
Speaker 1: Turn it off now.
David: Turn it off. If you don't like the way something is done, the right way to give feedback to the right person is, is not just like, hey, I didn't like this. It's like, come on. I know you're better than that.
Speaker 1: That's definitely...
David: And that's just a change in mindset.
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah. I do do that and all the time, but I think why I do it is my intent is different. And because of that, the person feels that it's coming from a different place. Right? Saying to someone like, I know you're capable of doing more than that, I know you can do twice as good or whatever the amount is, I just know there's a better version of you, is someone who's trying to coach and is on the same side as that person versus someone saying, this is shitty. I don't like it.
Speaker 1: And that's more a matter of my opinion versus trying to lift someone up. Right? So if you're coaching someone and saying, you're better than this and you know that for a fact, then you're trying to lift them up. You're trying to help them lift themselves out actually. And if you do the opposite, then you're basically pushing them down.
David: Yeah. All right. So the last thing, and we're going to wrap up on this one is I just want to read, so I pulled a line out from my notes. I want to read this to you and then kind of get your take on it because I think it relates to what you just said. There's a line where they're talking about the manager- employee relationship, and the manager in the book says, no, I mean, you work for yourself, just like the other people on our team. I don't believe anyone ever really works for anybody else. Deep down, people like to work for themselves.
Speaker 1: Pretty amazing, because that was my favorite line in the book, that you pull that one out.
David: How does that change the dynamic of manager and employee, when you think of that or just team in general?
Speaker 1: I think it changes everything. I think that line, I love the most because I think I've had that thought for being a kind of serial kind of starter of things, I've always had in my mind that I never want to work for someone else. Right? That's part of why a lot of people become entrepreneurs and most of them that I know, right? There's that kind of that feeling inside that you don't want to work for someone else. So, because of that, I always had this in designing teams or trying to recruit people, I always wanted to design things so that everyone on the team felt like they were working for themselves and they were doing things in their self best interests and that they weren't working for someone else. Even to this day I have to force myself to say the word employee, one, because I never want to be anyone's employee myself. So that actually is a hard word for me to say out loud. I don't like that word. So I don't want to be in a room full of employees. I want to be in a room full of people that I will enjoy being around who feel like they're getting something done and they're becoming a better version of themselves in doing that, and yes, that'll help the company, but it'll help them more over the longterm. So I think it changes, when you have that perspective, then it changes everything about how you design teams, how you think, how you incent people, what kind of people you recruit because you have to recruit people whose personal mission aligns with whatever you're trying to do in the business so that they're capable of doing it here. My mission is to do something that is 180 ° away from anything that I could ever do day- to- day at this company, then it's never going to work. Right? You're never going to have those two things aligned. You're going to have someone who's wants to be, I don't know, wants to be artistic and wants to be a musician, but is in finance and accounting here. Right? And he's never going to get to flex those skills here. It's probably a bad fit for them.
David: Yeah. I love it. All right. So the book is called The One Minute Manager.
Speaker 1: Ken Blanchard.
David: Ken Blanchard. Go check it out. If you send us a screenshot while you're listening to this podcast, you don't even have to buy the book.
Speaker 1: Nope.
David: Tweet @ drift, and we're going to buy it for you.
Speaker 1: That's @ drift tweet at us. Let us know how you like us reviewing books. We've got a million books to review, nonstop readers here. And let us know if you like us. Five star reviews only.