#103: Carol Meyers Live
Dave: We're lucky to have an amazing guest tonight, Carol brings over 25 years of experience in marketing and sales. But it's not the years, it's the company and the marketing machines that she's helped build. She's the CMO of Rapid7. You know them here in Boston, public company. She's was the CMO at LogMeIn, they went public. She was the CMO at Unica Corporation, they went public and got acquired by IBM. I was trying to do some research before this, if you go to her LinkedIn profile, you actually can't get to the bottom of it because she's on so many boards and does so many things outside of the community. I was like, did she work there? Invest? I don't understand. But it's amazing. It's amazing. She's a rock rockstar. Thank you. The reason why I'm super excited to have her here is this line that I found in the press release, hopefully you didn't write this, but this is a line from the press release when Carol joined Rapid7 in 2011." Myers brings an extensive marketing and sales expertise and proven success in driving technologies company to growth, including delivering more than 1. 5 billion in market value for investors through these three IPO's." Where's DC? Is billion good? crosstalk. Billion is pretty good. Billion is pretty good. So all I know is there's a B in billion. We are so lucky to have Carol here tonight. Please give it up for Carol Myers. crosstalk. We just spent the last hour talking. I wish we could have just recorded it and then you and I could've gone out to dinner or something.
Carol Myers: We should have.
Dave: Just played it for everybody.
Carol Myers: crosstalk avatars here, or something.
Dave: There's so many different things to talk about, but we figured we would just get right into politics would be the best place for you and I to start tonight, if that's okay. No, but actually do have a serious question. So when I was talking to Mike Volpi when we said we're going to have you and do this, and he's like," Make sure you ask her about the party in Vegas." So I think there's no better ice breaker. I don't even know what that is. It could be nothing. But I need to know now.
Carol Myers: The party in Vegas. Well, what happens in Vegas...
Audience: Stays in Vegas.
Carol Myers: So I can't tell you.
Audience: I know those security companies, they go to Vegas.
Carol Myers: We're a security company and the big event for people who dabble in security, and in fact this is the biggest event because it's where the people who are known as white hat hackers go, so the people who try to break into your network for good purposes, all convene in Las Vegas, usually at the end of July, beginning of August, and we have the biggest baddest party in Vegas, and we rent out the top clubs, like Hakkasan or XS over at the Wynn, and we have 4- 5, 000 of our friends attend. It's a complete open bar. We were talking about, I think the team here with Amy, about top shelf liquor and there was some of that flowing, and champagne, and you it's a fabulous event. What can I tell you? It's so popular that there is a company that monitors network traffic all the time and one of the things they always tell us is that leading up to our party, 80% of the traffic talking about the black hat event is about the Rapid7 party, where it is, and how to get a pass. So it's really fun.
Dave: I love it. But Carol, how do you measure the ROI of that party?
Carol Myers: ROI. We measure ROI-
Dave: How are we possibly going to measure the ROI of this event tonight?
Carol Myers: We ask everyone,"Did you have a good time?" And if they say, yes, we're really happy. No, we keep track of everybody who comes and we do measure the growth of relationships over time and do people ultimately buy products from us and all of those good kinds of things. So the party does more than pay for itself, maybe five or six times, for sure.
Dave: That's awesome. There's so many things and we're going to open this up to Q& A, that's why we gave you all notebooks. It's not often to get to sit up here and talk to somebody with experience like Carol, so definitely use those notebooks, get some questions for later. But I want to start earlier in your career because you weren't a marketer from the beginning, you were a product manager, whatever that means, and you were part of the Lotus Mafia back in the day. What happened after school to get you to Lotus and start there.
Carol Myers: Well, I actually started in finance of all things. I was a bean counter and the reason I got into sales and marketing is I was the bean counter for the head of sales, marketing, and support at Lotus, which for a lot of people in this room, you probably have never heard of one, two, three, but it is what really made spreadsheets. Excel was nothing back then. I just worked on their budgets for them and did analysis, and somehow, as anybody in their career knows, as people you report to move on and get promoted, they sometimes take you with them. So I started following people around and one day I said," I don't really want to just measure this stuff, I would like to do it." So I was given an opportunity to do a little bit of it and that's how I made the switch over.
Dave: I was trying to figure out what your story is. Some people, marketing since day one. You had finance, then you're a VP of sales, then you're a VP of marketing. What happened in the five years that you were at Lotus that actually led to your next thing, which is VP of sales at Shiva?
Carol Myers: I didn't really do that much marketing at Lotus, if I'm really honest. I did a little bit.
Dave: Just counting. A lot of counting.
Carol Myers: I was a product marketer for a little while and a product maybe for six months or so. So I went to another company called Shiva, which was a pre IPO company and we took that to IPO, and I started working there in something called sales operations and somehow I made my way to the head of sales for the company. We were about 200 million or so in revenue, and I had a really large team of enterprise and inside sales sellers and systems engineers. And it just happens by being around at the right place at the right time and saying yes when someone taps you on the shoulders and says," Would you go do this job?" I say," Okay, I'll go do that job."
Dave: So you got into sales.
Carol Myers: So I got into sales and then crosstalk.
Dave: Doesn't every salesperson think they can do marketing or marketing person thinks they can do sales? It's the perfect fit, right?
Carol Myers: Yes. So that's how it happened. After I was done with Shiva, we were public and we sold the company to Intel, and I figured out a way to take the summer off, which was really fun. And then when I was thinking about what I wanted to do next, I decided, I don't think I want to do sales anymore. I think I want to be a CMO. So I interviewed at a couple companies and, because we all think we can do marketing, I convinced someone I could, and that's how I got the job of head of marketing. The truth of the matter is, I'd never run an event. I'd never really done a marketing campaign. And I stepped into that role and said, I can do this. And that's what happened.
Dave: You used what you learned in sales to swindle your way into marketing.
Carol Myers: Right. Well, sales should be partnering with marketing a lot. So, because I partnered really closely with the marketing team and we worked on everything together, I really felt like I did understand what I needed to do pretty well.
Dave: I think probably outside of Rapid7 today, do you think that the thing that most people know is the LogMeIn story, or no?
Carol Myers: No, because that was brief. Really probably Unica, because that started from zero revenue to about 125 million and an IPO and a acquisition by IBM, and I was there a good eight years growing that.
Dave: Were you at Unica at zero?
Carol Myers: Yes.
Dave: Then what happened?
Carol Myers: We grew to 125 million.
Dave: Unpack that a little bit. I'm just interested. Marketing today is different than marketing was then.
Carol Myers: Very much so.
Dave: What was your mix? There's a lot of marketers in the room. What were the things that you were doing then? How did you get from zero to one to 10 to...
Carol Myers: Well, the fun thing about marketing, and especially if you go into a really tiny company, what you need to do constantly changes, because you don't have any money and nobody knows who you are and so you have to get somewhere. So at Unica, which was different for me too, because it was enterprise software, our average deal size was$ 500,000 with services on top of that. So there, I really focused on industry analysts, which everybody knows and loves, and getting their attention by actually doing what we today call account based marketing and figuring out who really needs this software and is going to pay half a million dollars, and go directly at them with campaigns, and calling them, and winning companies like Land's End and Bank of Montreal, and really focusing on making sure they would be advocates for us. Even though we were a tiny company, people would come up to me and say," You guys have like 4, 000 employees, right?" And I'm like," Well, we're approaching 4, 000 employees. After we hit 40 we might get there." Because we had such great customer names who were really excited about our software. Then it changes over time and you have to do a lot bigger mass marketing type things. And social was just getting started, so we did a lot of email, started blogs, things like that in the early days.
Dave: You did? You had a company blog?
Carol Myers: We had a company blog. We started to do some social stuff way back in the day, but it was early. It was early days back then.
Dave: One of the things that we think about a lot and talk about, I know, like you said, ABM, for that reason, the old stuff is new again and it keeps coming back around. How much of what was core that worked for you in marketing then do you still see is still applicable today? Is it the same?
Carol Myers: It's probably less. The thing that's evergreen is having to know your customer, what they care about, why does your solution, whatever it is you have, people, solution, services, why are they going to care about this thing? What's going to be better about what you're doing? How are you going to solve their challenges? Why should they spend any time even thinking about you? Because when you think about it, one of the biggest challenges that we have is, even though you say, I know they have that problem and they need to solve it, they have a lot of problems and so we, as buyers and consumers of things, are always trying to figure out, what is the most important problem for me to spend my time on right now? There's a lot of convincing you have to do, so I think the evergreen things are really trying to understand the customer and why you have anything to offer to them, and then you can use the right tactics to get that out there
Dave: What been the biggest thing that has changed over the course for companies, for IPOs? Are there people that were on your marketing teams at one of those earlier companies that probably couldn't do what you need somebody to do today?
Carol Myers: Well, I think anybody can learn anything, so I would say if they really wanted to learn something new, they could. And I still work with one of my event marketers from back in the days of Shiva and she's amazing and she does unbelievable things for us, and so I've known her for a very, very, really long time. So I think people can learn things. But you always have to have a mix of new skills, new ideas, on a team. So I think that's really important.
Dave: We had an interesting conversation about skills and hiring. I thought some of that was worth sharing with everybody here. So we were talking about you interviewing. You want to be involved in all the interviews, all the hires, that you make today.
Carol Myers: I do.
Dave: How many people are on your team?
Carol Myers: Not that many.
Dave: Not that many?
Carol Myers: Maybe 50.
Dave: 50 person marketing team is not bad.
Carol Myers: Is not bad.
Dave: They could do some things. But you don't always get the chance, because you have a crazy schedule, but you want to be involved in all those hires.
Carol Myers: Yes.
Dave: Why? crosstalk.
Carol Myers: Because I really, truly believe there's nothing more important that you can ever do as a leader other than to hire great people, because the only thing that really makes companies work is fabulous people. They have to be great at what they do, they have to be able to work with the people around them and create really good energy, and so I'm always looking for those things in everyone we hire. Interviews can be tricky. People can convince you that they might be able to meet all that criteria, and the other thing that happens is it's really hard to hire in Boston and so jobs stay open for a long time. And every once in a while, a hiring manager gets tired and they meet someone and they know they're not the right person, but they're super tired and they're like, well, maybe it'll work. So every once in a while you need someone else to come in and be like, nope, we need to wait. I know it's painful.
Dave: But if you have something like that on your team, do you take the pressure off of the hiring managers on your team and say, the rec can be open as long as it needs to be open?
Carol Myers: Yes.
Dave: Are you saying, we got to fill this role, we got to fill this role?
Carol Myers: No. Never. Never fill the role until we find the right person.
Dave: We were talking a little bit about you found it, I don't know if this is new, you've done a bunch of them, but you have more of a data driven approach to hiring now, thanks to some personality tests.
Carol Myers: Yes.
Dave: I would love to talk more about that.
Carol Myers: The PI, so predictive index, which you guys are using a little bit, and there's a billion different tests you can use, but it tells you some things about people, and if you know what you need in a role and a few things about your team, it can really help you get past some of what you crosstalk.
Dave: Does anybody here use personality tests in hiring today? Seven people.
Carol Myers: There's no bad personality. They're all good. They just might not fit the role that-
Dave: Dave, we think you're great. We don't love your personality for this role.
Carol Myers: Because it's not about whether you're a nice person, it's things like, how assertive are you? Are you more people oriented or task oriented? Do you have a strong sense of urgency or strong sense of patience? Are you very formal or do you like to play with the rules a little bit? And those can be different. You can have different needs. How detail oriented is somebody, can make a big difference.
Dave: Would you use a personality test to make a yes or no decision on a hire?
Carol Myers: I've rarely said no, but I will usually use it to ask the hiring manager to really rethink. Because we've profiled our entire team and we have a super high sense of urgency. 85-90% of the people on the team have a super sense of urgency, so it's really hard for someone who doesn't have that to join our team and end up being successful.
Dave: I have so many things I want to ask you. I don't even know. I literally have pages of freaking notes.
Carol Myers: He does have pages.
Dave: You've done four IPOs, you're on a bunch of boards for earlier stage companies, and I think most of the people in the room are probably, just by guess by companies in Boston, probably not at the public companies, probably somewhere in the middle. They want you on the board probably to talk about marketing and sales. What are the biggest mistakes that you see those companies make over and over that you sit in all those board meetings or you get the company updates and you see the same things over and over? There's got to be a couple.
Carol Myers: I'm an extreme optimist and I really like growth and so I'm always trying to have a higher number. One time when I was running sales, I had a sales person come in and complain about their quota, and then after they left, I left that meeting thinking, what's the matter with me? I should ask for more quota. And I thought, maybe I'm spinning a little out of control. So I really like growth.
Dave: I should have asked for more quota.
Carol Myers: Because I should be able to do more. I really like growth. But what I see a lot of companies do is put up huge numbers that they think they're going to hit, and when you ask them," Well, here's where you are today, and here's your marketing metrics and sales metrics," we all know our funnel," And I don't see how you get to that number. What is it about the process that you have right now that you can just pour gasoline on and have more come out the other end?" And often that's where the plans fall down a little bit.
Dave: Because there's a number, but there's not actually a plan to get there.
Carol Myers: There's not really a plan to get there. There's a lot of hope.
Dave: Are you just like," Good luck to you"? Or are you able to come in and say to most people," Here's where I would start. Here's your big goal, but you need to start here." Do you have a progression for most of them?
Carol Myers: I'll usually ask them to go back and do some homework on how are we going to..." Let's really break down what are the things, and if I give you another$ 5 million, how are you going to spend them? How are you really going to get there?" And very often then people will... Sometimes they're like," Okay, okay," because board members, we're not operators. We don't get to tell people what to do. But I usually find by the next board meeting, they are telling us that they aren't really going to meet that original plan and they're revising it.
Dave: All right. So, well, we've talked-
Carol Myers: None of the boards I'm currently on.
Dave: Good. I didn't talk to you about this one before, so I'm hoping you'll answer it.
Carol Myers: That's okay.
Dave: It is? Okay. Well, I have some others. I have page two.
Carol Myers: You can ask me anything. Didn't I say that?
Dave: You did say that. What's the biggest mistake? What's the biggest thing you screwed up? There's got to be something that you have approved that... Direct mail with the wrong phone number on it.
Carol Myers: Those things happen all the time. Those are little mistakes. Those aren't the really big things. We've tried so many things from a marketing perspective that haven't worked. It hasn't been really big money. I think we've run some contests that have bombed, thinking this will be great, everyone's going to go crazy, and social media is going to light on fire. And it doesn't. Social media, you guys do really well. But you never know, some of them go fabulously and some of them really don't. Usually big mistakes are less about things that you did, and I think probably more about things that you didn't.
Dave: Tweet that. That was good. Write that, tweet that one. @ CarolJMeyers. That's what it is.
Carol Myers: Opportunities you didn't take. Things you didn't say in a meeting that you really should have said. Those are the things that I think accumulate over time.
Dave: How do you bring it to your team? You have typically run marketing at public companies, which means that, not that you can afford to miss a goal at a private company, but it's a little bit different if the volume isn't there or the revenue number isn't there for a public company. You actually can't miss. How do you have culture and teams that are willing to experiment, knowing that you can't really fuck it up?
Carol Myers: Once you're a really big company, you have to do something really big to screw it up. So we just try to do experiments all the time, and usually what will happen is sometimes people will propose something that my first reaction might be," Are you kidding me? That'll never work." But I try to hold that in and suspend disbelief on everything because I just think the most important thing I know is I really don't know everything and things I've done in the past that have worked don't always work at a new company and a new market. So I usually think about it." Well, what's the biggest risk that could happen if we spend this money and it doesn't work? Probably nothing really bad, go ahead and try it. Let's come back and talk about how it went." Sometimes people really surprise me with things that I thought, there's no way that's going to work, and they work beautifully.
Dave: How does somebody have to pitch you? Are you the final approver on some bigger ideas? Would I have to walk into your office with slides and pitch you?
Carol Myers: I don't need slides.
Dave: You don't need slides.
Carol Myers: No. It's usually a conversation. I'm looking to think about, have they thought about why they want to do it? Why it's good for our market? What's the impact going to be? What might go wrong? And just have a conversation. And we said we have a sense of urgency, so that can be a drive by. But we also sometimes hold an annual, we call it the Marketing Innovation Challenge, and people get a pool of money and they come pitch their ideas as well. But I like to have ideas flowing all the time, that's just one big thing that we do.
Dave: Have you had something really good come out of that? You had to have something.
Carol Myers: Have we had something really... So we have a great program that we're doing now that our customers really love that is around advocacy and that's worked really well in terms of getting a lot more social media and positive product reviews and sales and a bunch of other things. Actually doing Drift came out of one of those two.
Dave: That was not paid. We did not prep that. Feel free to tweet that if you would like, @ CarolJMeyers, like I said. All right, so we talked about screw ups. You didn't really screw anything up.
Carol Myers: I've screwed up lots of things. So many, I probably can't even remember them all.
Dave: What's your biggest achievement as a marketer?
Carol Myers: Well, I hope my biggest achievement hasn't happened yet. That's what I really hope.
Dave: That's really good. So, it's not Vegas.
Carol Myers: It's not Vegas. It's not a one thing. The thing that I love the most is being able to come to events like this, or be out and about in Boston and see people I've worked with in the past who've had a great career, and I have this little thing where I'm like, I hope I was helpful to that and I was able to give them some perspective or skill or anything that helped them move their career. That's what I like the most, actually.
Dave: All right, I've been saving this one because we talked about it, but I think this is more of a lecture to other people than it is, but it's, what's your biggest pet... I'm just going to read it. What is your biggest pet peeve with marketers?
Carol Myers: We are, I said, we're lemmings. We are such lemmings.
Dave: I love this.
Carol Myers: We're always reading these studies about when to send an email or when to make a phone call or ABM. I mean, ABM is great, but it's not generally going to solve world hunger and it's probably not the only thing you should be doing in marketing. Usually you have to do a couple of different things.
Dave: Or just because you go to event and Jana says, go use ABM, it doesn't mean that you just go plug it into your business. The example you and I were talking about, which is the email thing, if tomorrow somebody published an article like, dear marketers, the best time to send an email is 2: 07 PM. Guess what would happen tomorrow?
Carol Myers: We would all do it.
Dave: Everyone would send an email at 2: 07 PM.
Carol Myers: Yes, exactly. To the same people.
Dave: Yeah, to the same people.
Carol Myers: Who will get 5, 000 emails.
Dave: Everybody jut following the lemmings, right?
Carol Myers: One year it was inbound marketing. But most of us are probably still doing inbound marketing, but it's fallen out of favor now.
Dave: All right, I want to transition. So we're going to do Q&A, but I have some the Tim Ferriss type questions. Don't worry. What books have had the biggest influence on your career? Or if you could go by your marketing team, if you haven't already, crosstalk if you could buy them a book.
Carol Myers: I'm going to probably say something that maybe is mean to authors. I like books. I read a lot of books. But I think too often people read a book and they're like, this is great. This is the playbook. If we follow this we're going to have the most successful company that ever happened. And there is no playbook. I think every company, every situation, is totally different. You learn things out of them, but they're not a playbook. Books that I like are the Heath brother books, Made to Stick and Switch. I love Dan Ariely's, Predictably Irrational. I think it's hilarious and I think it's a good read because I think we all think people make rational decisions. We're like, if we do this, they'll do that, and people don't really make rational-
Dave: Well, because they're lemmings.
Carol Myers: Which is why marketing works, by the way, because people don't make rational decisions. Which I think is good. And then, it's a really old book, but I think there are elements of it that are still true, which is the Geoffrey Moore series on Crossing the Chasm, and if you're building a business there's elements of that that, no matter what, just seem to stay true.
Dave: Who are your marketing role models? You're about to talk to your team or you want to get people to think about something differently, who are the role models that you're pushing towards? Whether that's people or companies or brands.
Carol Myers: Well, I brought you in to talk to them.
Dave: You did. That was a lot of fun. She grilled me. It was-
Carol Myers: You were one of our crosstalk.
Dave: Wait, finish that.
Carol Myers: I'll be honest-
Dave: Finish what you were going to say.
Carol Myers: You are a role model. I think some of the best marketers are actually CEOs. David Cancel is a great marketer, for sure.
Dave: He's all right.
Carol Myers: Without a doubt. You look at, I mean, you may look like him, you may not, Marc Benioff is a great marketer.
Dave: That's actually the book that we talk about the most is, Behind the Cloud. The things he did, marketers don't always think like that, but he just was like, let's show up at an event and just hijack the whole thing. Just completely non- traditional things.
Carol Myers: Elon Musk, great marketer. Richard Branson, great marketer. And of course Steve Jobs was an amazing marketer. So I often think CEOs with this incredible passion are the best marketers.
Dave: All right, I'm going to change gears on you. What unusual habit does Carol Myers have?
Carol Myers: What unusual habit? I don't know. If it's a habit to me, then I probably think it's usual. What unusual habit do I have?
Dave: Like you love celery, or something. I don't know.
Carol Myers: I don't really love celery. I like quinoa. I do get up and I have to have a workout every morning. In fact, one morning, I didn't and my assistant told me to never do that again. She said," Whatever you do, do not come in if you haven't had your workout."
Dave: She's like,"Whatever you didn't do this morning, don't-
Carol Myers: I think it was like... Who does those commercials for the Snickers bar maybe or something? I think I might do that.
Dave: I'm trying to picture what your alter ego was in that crosstalk.
Carol Myers: I don't even know, but it was obviously scary.
Dave: I'm stealing this question though, because I want to ask it to you. In the last five years, what have you become better at saying no to?
Carol Myers: Myself and my inner voice that says, this is a bad idea, and listening to every idea that people propose and really making sure I try not to judge before I just let it sink in. That's something I've really been working hard at.
Dave: So if somebody presents an idea to you or something, you try not to sleep on it?
Carol Myers: My team says that I say," That's very interesting." So now I'm trying not to say, that's very interesting.
Dave: I'm going to give you a hint. My boss, everyone is going to agree with me right now, his thing is, he goes," Cool." If he says cool, I'm like, next. I got to have more ideas.
Carol Myers: I'm trying to eliminate that word from my vocabulary.
Dave: All right, awesome. Do you want to talk about anything else before I open it up to Q&A? I'm sure we'll get some good things. What have we not-
Carol Myers: I'm glad you didn't ask me any of the interview questions. So that's good. Like job interview questions. So we can open it up now. There were some on there, I was like, that's like a job interview question.
Dave: See, I didn't even use those. I copied and pasted those. Don't worry.
Male: Dave, this one's directed at you crosstalk, we're in a room full of marketers, and most of us understand there's liability related to advertising claims.
Dave: Relative to advertising claims. This was described as a fireside chat. Where's the fire?
Carol Myers: Well, it was. Did you see it on the screens?
Dave: You saw it in a slide.
Carol Myers: It was on the screen at one point. Maybe we should put that back.
Dave: You heard the sirens the whole time. crosstalk.
Male: You're on the hook for this, Dave.
Dave: All right.
Female: inaudible. Carol brought the heat. crosstalk.
Dave: I have so many questions from people on my phone that they sent, but I would love to get to the people that are in the room.
Female: Hi, Carol.
Carol Myers: Hi.
Female: I'm going to steal two questions. One, what separates a VP of marketing from a CMO? And what advice do you have for women who want to become more senior leaders in their field?
Carol Myers: Those are good questions. What separates... I'm not sure. So on the first one I'm going to cheat a little bit. One has three letters and one only has two. Every company is a little different and I do think there's title inflation. We all want to be a chief now. Chief is the best thing.
Dave: But if you see a 10 person startup, everyone's 23, and they all have C- level titles, you're like...
Carol Myers: Absolutely. Everybody's chief of themselves. So I don't know if there's a huge difference. I think that the biggest difference is typically you might be a VP of a part of marketing, whereas a chief marketing officer should generally be responsible for everything to do with marketing, from product marketing, to the brand, to the demand generation and strategy, and all those things. Your second question was... Oh, advice. I actually just came from the Mass Women's Conference today too. I think the most important things are to have a voice, to have confidence in yourself, to try to make sure you don't just focus on getting things done and results, but being part of a strategic conversation and picking your head up and focus a lot on good delegation and developing people. I think those are the really big, important things.
Female: With such a diverse background, finance, sales, marketing, what are some of the ways that you have successfully or unsuccessfully reached across the aisle to align with sales in order to devise campaigns and grow?
Carol Myers: That's a good question. I have a really good relationship with most of the sales VPs I worked with. We still see each other quite a bit. I probably work more now with our COO and a little bit less on the real campaign things, but I think the most important thing is I try to make sure that everyone on marketing understands how hard sales job is and that our job is to help make their job easier. Sometimes people say," Well, salespeople get paid a lot more money." And I always say to people," If you want, you can pick up a bat and you can dial the phone all day, too." I mean, you definitely can. I think that salespeople should have that same appreciation for marketing people and the hard work that they do and the stress and pressures they have. And I think when you understand that and you have shared goals, that's the most important thing. What are we trying to accomplish together? Try and understand where salespeople are struggling. What's not working? Why aren't they winning more? Why aren't they finding more? And trying to think creatively about how to help them together. I think those are the most important things. I think having a shared view of the market, the goals, and then you can figure it all out. But an appreciation for each other is, I think, at the core.
Male: Carol, thank you for the great comments so far. You're a super well credentialed, qualified, experienced individual, and to your point previously, we were talking about David Cancel and the CEO being a marketer. Why have you now chosen to be a CMO instead of a CEO?
Carol Myers: Do you have an opening for me? I'm just kidding.
Dave: She said it.
Male: I imagine it's not for lack of either offers or opportunity.
Dave: That was a planted question, because she said, when I asked her her biggest achievement, she said," It hasn't happened yet." So that was a planted question. What was that?
Carol Myers: No, it's a good question. I thought a lot about doing it, I'll be honest. I thought a lot about, do I want to go do that? And usually it's when I feel like, hey, I want to build a great culture and I have a different view of the strategy and I should go do my own thing. I really love what I do and I like partnering with great CEOs. I still might do it, but not yet, I guess. And no one has been beating down my door yet. So if you know of great jobs, let me know.
Dave: Sorry, Jana.
Female: Hi, Carol. I'm actually also a Lotus alum, so I do remember a lot of the stuff you're talking about. But my question is, it's great to see that you're serving on a number of boards. What can be done to bring more representation by women on boards?
Carol Myers: There is a lot happening today. I don't think we necessarily see it in the numbers as yet, but there is a really big initiative to do that. And I think part of the problem is traditionally where people have searched for board members is for CEOs, and there aren't very many women CEOs so you're not necessarily going to get a lot of women on boards. What I see happening is people are looking for different kinds of skills now. So CFOs, there's women's CFOs, more so, I think, than CEOs, and they're always in high demand for boards. But people are starting to say, well, we don't need everyone to have actually run a company, we need other kinds of skills and sometimes it's technical or it's marketing, and so as companies start to do that, I think you'll see more people of color, women, getting onto boards, as it should be. There's a lot of activism going on as well. State Street Global Advisors, for example, who's an investment company, won't invest in companies unless they're making strides on diversifying their boards. So I think we'll see some change.
Dave: Let's do one more.
Male: I'm sure there's some marketing teams of one here. If your team went from 50 to one tomorrow, what would be some marketing tactics, tactical things, that you would focus on?
Carol Myers: Wow, that's a tough question. I always feel like I say this too much, it depends. Because it really depends on what it is you're marketing and selling. So the most important thing is... When I started at Unica, I kind of was a team of one. There was one other person there, so it was a team of two. And we just had to figure it out. So really knowing what's the most important thing I can do to reach my audience. You guys do a great job with social, for sure. And marketing people use social a lot, so that is a great vehicle because we're all on social all the time. So knowing what product you have to sell, where your buyers are that they might want to learn about your product, and then focusing there and getting a few wins, and growing it, I think is the most important. It's not really a simple answer, but I think demand generation is... After your strategy, demand generation is the lifeblood for getting started.
Dave: I'm sure people will have a bunch more questions and swarm you in two minutes. Please give it up for Carol. Thank you so much.
Carol Myers: Thank you.
Dave: See you.