#120: #AskDC and Lessons from The Best in Retail (Amazon, Home Depot, Walmart)

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This is a podcast episode titled, #120: #AskDC and Lessons from The Best in Retail (Amazon, Home Depot, Walmart). The summary for this episode is: If you like this episode, we bet that you’ll love our blog content. blog.drift.com/#subscribe Subscribe to never miss a post & join the 20,000+ other pros committed to getting better every day. ----- We’re back and talking about the three books that DC got for everyone on the management team at Drift (and why). Plus the two people he’d want in the room right now outside of Jeff Bezos, Sam Walton, and the Home Depot founders. And the debut of a brand new SW segment: #AskDC. Hit us up with a question for the next #AskDC on Twitter by tweeting @dcancel and @davegerhardt Get something out of this episode? Leave a 6 star review on Apple Podcasts. If you're a fan of the show we would LOVE you to join us at HYPERGROWTH -- our annual conference at Drift. Tuesday 9/4 in Boston and Monday 9/24 in SF. You can get your tickets at hypergrowth.drift.com with the promo code SEEKINGWISDOM for just $199 -- and that is the lowest price on the Internet just for SW fans.

DG: All right. Look, we had a long conversation this week about podcasts. I think we need to do a better intro.

DC: Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.

DG: crosstalk told me we need to do a better intro.

DC: Yo, yo.

DG: Because what's been happening is we assume that everybody has heard us before.

DC: That's true.

DG: Right?

DC: Okay. Okay.

DG: So, we're going to make this up on the fly.

DC: Have we started yet?

DG: Yeah, we've started.

DC: Okay.

DG: This is Seeking Wisdom, okay?

DC: Okay, what's Seeking Wisdom?

DG: This is Seeking Wisdom.

DC: Who are you?

DG: I'm DG.

DC: Okay.

DG: And this is DC. DC, to me Seeking Wisdom is about everything.

DC: I'm DC, I'm the uncle.

DG: You're the uncle.

DC: David Cancel.

DG: You're the OG, David Cancel.

DC: That's Gerhardt over there. Dave Gerhardt, the young buck.

DG: I was Dave. And then I came to Drift, and DC, it was my first day, and he said," I got your email set up." He said," But you can't have dave @ drift.com." Which is weird, because you're not Dave.

DC: I don't use crosstalk.

DG: So it doesn't make sense.

DC: You can have Dave now.

DG: Anyway, that's DC. Thank you. I don't want it. That's DC, I'm DG.

DC: That's the nephew.

DG: Every week we get on here to talk about something and it's always about personal or professional growth. We've never written it down as a tagline, but that's what I think it is. What do you think it is?

DC: It's about everyday growth, right? Growing in all dimensions. And so that's what we talk about here. That's the common theme and it's going to start to branch out into lots of different areas and we have lots and lots and lots and lots and hundreds or thousands of new listeners. And so we need to remind them who we are. So I'm David AKA DC, AK The Uncle. That's DG.

DG: That's DG.

DC: AKA Dave.

DG: AKA Dave, yes.

DC: AKA Gerhardt, AKA the nephew.

DG: Yes. AKA the nephew. Now you know, now it's all clear.

DC: All right. Now we're ready to go. What are we talking about?

DG: Now, we're ready to go. Okay. So, one thing I want to, I want to catch up with a couple of things on you about, but I want to talk about you got these three books. You gave three books to everyone on the management team at Drift. Okay. And I think one of the best things about Seeking Wisdom is we just expose that. We share that with everybody. Right. I want to explain those three books really quick and why you gave them, okay? Do you remember what they are?

DC: Yeah, of course.

DG: Okay.

DC: They are.

DG: Number one.

DC: The book by the old uncle, Sam Walton.

DG: Yes, Sam Walton.

DC: Made in America.

DG: Made in America.

DC: Yeah, that's the first book.

DG: Okay.

DC: Should I rattle all three off?

DG: Yeah, rattle all three off and then crosstalk.

DC: The second book is called, the next uncle, young uncle. It's called The Everything Store and it was not written by Bezos, but it is about Bezos and Amazon.

DG: Brad Stone.

DC: Brad stone wrote that. And then the third book was written by the founders and that is Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank, AKA the founders of the Home Depot and it's called Built From Scratch.

DG: Built From Scratch. So in order, the oldest one is Sam Walton then Built From Scratch, then The Everything Store.

DC: Yeah.

DG: Most CEO's hand out books like Good To Great. And you've given us those.

DC: By the way, we're working on getting Jim Collins on this.

DG: Okay. Shout out Jim Collins.

DC: Shout out. Jim, if you're listening, come on over.

DG: Why did you give those three books? What is it about those three books in particular? Because it was a stack.

DC: It was a stack.

DG: You said," Here's a stack, you got these."

DC: That was the management pack.

DG: Okay.

DC: So there's a whole bunch of books that we always talk about here, they're books that I constantly keep going back to. And these are three books that I constantly go back to. And it's weird that we pick these three books because all three of them have nothing to do with B2B, marketing, sales, anything like that. They're all retail businesses, right? It's Walmart, Amazon and Home Depot. But the thing that's common, if you read all three of those books, is the obsession around customers, which is the thing that we live and breathe. And so, these are the books that I kept coming back to. The first one, Made In America, I read 15 years ago and I've read a million times and I've talked about it a million times. The Everything Store more recent. I probably read that, I don't know, four years ago.

DG: Couple years ago.

DC: Something like that. And then we've come back to that one. And then the third one is an old book that was out of print, but recently came back in print, Built From Scratch, and that one is new to me. I had never read it before, but as soon as I opened it and read it, I bought copies for everyone.

DG: It's the same thing.

DC: And the story was amazing behind it.

DG: Okay. Sam Walton book, you know how much it costs? Seven 19.

DC: Wow, it went up. When I first bought it, it used to be five bucks.

DG: That's all the PR you've been giving it.

DC: Five bucks. They're raising the prices, it used to be a five something. Five 25.

DG: Okay. So those are three books crosstalk

DC: How many copies of that book do you think we've sold? A lot of copies.

DG: I don't know.

DC: We've bought a lot of copies.

DG: There's one problem though. They only have four, one, two, three, four, he only has four and a half stars on Amazon.

DC: How are they going to do the uncle dirty like that?

DG: June 1st, 1993. Why you keep reading all these old books?

DC: 1993?

DG: Yeah.

DC: That's, let's see, probably read it soon after that.

DG: That's crazy.

DC: DG, don't do the math on that. Yeah. Yeah.

DG: All right. So, those are three books which are fundamental to the core. It has nothing to do with SAS. Nothing to do with what we do on a day- to- day basis. But everything to do with Drift and the business.

DC: '93I was high flying.

DG: '93?what does that mean?

DC: Yeah, I was a high flyer.

DG: You were in crosstalk Oh, okay. That's trouble. That's trouble. We've seen some old DC pictures. Actually, if you go back a couple episodes, Shannon, who was on here, she put a nice picture of DC back in the day. He lived rugged in Queens. All right. So, I'm going to put you on the spot though. Those are three guys. Bezos.

DC: Yes.

DG: Arthur blank and Bernie Marcus.

DC: Yeah.

DG: That's four inaudible guys. And Sam Walton, actually.

DC: Yep.

DG: Okay. You can't talk about any of those guys, and I'm not going to let you take Buffet or Munger.

DC: What?

DG: But give me two other people that you would recommend to a up and coming, whether it's a founder, entrepreneur, or business person.

DC: In terms of books?

DG: Yeah, or person to follow. Because for you, I've noticed it's not just books, it's not like you read the book then you're done. That person then becomes a mental model. So now you're in Jeff. It's not just that you read the book about Bezos and" Hey, that was a good book." Then you're going and saying," Oh, where did he speak? What did he talk about? What is his letter to shareholders? What does he do? So give me two others. Give me two others.

DC: crosstalk all right, put me on the spot.

DG: I'll put you on the spot.

DC: As you know, I do no prep.

DG: There's no prep.

DC: No prep allowed crosstalk.

DG: You can't say Munger or Buffet.

DC: All right. I'm going to hit you with two.

DG: On the fly.

DC: Yeah. One of them you'll know. The second you will not expect.

DG: Will I know it?

DC: Yeah. Everyone will know them. Okay. Number one. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

DG: Ooh.

DC: Total Recall. Read that book, get that book.

DG: Has anybody seen what Arnold Schwarzenegger looks like recently? You sent me a post the other night on Instagram.

DC: 69 years old.

DG: He's 69 years old and he looks like a-

DC: He looks correct.

DG: Tank with his shirt off.

DC: Yeah, I would trade a lot of things to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger at 69. A lot.

DG: That's crazy.

DC: Who do I have to call?

DG: Okay. Why him though? I feel like on the surface, people joke about him.

DC: Sure.

DG: Because of his voice. But if you talk to some business OGs, yourself included, he's always in that list.

DC: Yeah. I love that book, Total Recall. And we may have talked about it in a super old episode, but what I like about Total Recall.

DG: We should do that though.

DC: Yeah. We should talk about that. Is that, basically, it's this story of this person, Arnold, who was able to manifest everything that they put their mind on. So the importance of setting a goal, the whole reps and sets that we always joke about comes from that book. He always said reps and sets everyone else says sets and reps. So reps and sets. And so, he did everything from, obviously, he become this super famous bodybuilder back in the seventies, one of the really first famous bodybuilders, and Mr. Olympia's probably the only one that people can name. Mr. Olympia is Arnold Schwarzenegger. So, that was a dream that he had. And he was a kid in Germany and Austria, Austria actually. And he put his mind on this thing and it was improbable at the time, and he was able to do that and defend that. Then during that time, he put his mind on wanting to become a real estate developer, and he owns a very large portfolio of housing in Santa Monica.

DG: Oh, yeah, isn't there some crazy story. I heard this somewhere. It was him and some other guy. And they were building-

DC: Franco.

DG: Yes.

DC: Who was also competing.

DG: What were they doing, construction or something like that?

DC: Yeah, so they were, so this is Franco Colombo.

DG: It was a crazy expensive, like granite Italian.

DC: Short guy, Italian guy who was also a competitive bodybuilder, super famous in the seventies. No, I was not even born when they were competing.

DG: I didn't say that, I never said that.

DC: I saw some eyes looking in here. But anyway, Franco knew how to fix houses. He was a bricklayer and so the two of them, to make money while they were working out in Gold's gym over there in Venice Beach, they took on these construction projects. And so the two of them, can you imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger and this Franco guy jacked back when no one was jacked? You never saw a human like this coming in, building brick walls, doing renovations, doing all this stuff, that kind of led and fed into them buying real estate, developing real estate. And to this day, he's a large real estate developer in L. A. So he did that. He wanted to get into politics. and each of these cases, if you look at the book, he did the thing that we always talk about. He found a mentor or set of mentors. He's found some role models. He kind of put his head down and did the reps and sets that were needed.

DG: He set big ass goals that nobody thought was possible.

DC: Yeah, he set big ass goals, and no one thought it was possible. He wanted to get into politics. He wanted to marry a Kennedy. All these things that he wanted to do, he was able to do. He wanted to be an actor after all of this, he wanted to be a successful actor. Again, more mentors, more role models. And he did all these things. He wanted to be the governor of California.

DG: He was.

DC: Which is crazy, which he was. So everything that this guy has thought about, he has manifested, whatever you think of Arnold Schwarzenegger. So that's why you should read Total Recall. Okay. I'm going to give you the second, are you ready?

DG: Total Recall.

DC: The second one, I don't think he's written a book, but I've been-

DG: Give me a clue, you don't think I'll get it.

DC: Let's see.

DG: I'm not very sharp like that, but give me-

DC: He used to be a rapper.

DG: He used to be a rapper. Okay.

DC: Okay. Do you got it?

DG: I mean, there's a million people. That's not a big enough clue. I don't know what he does now.

DC: He's from Philly.

DG: He's from Philly, okay.

DC: You know who it is?

DG: I don't know. Ooh, actually I do know who it is. I think it's Will Smith.

DC: Will Smith.

DG: Yeah, come on.

DC: Will Smith.

DG: I still got it.

DC: So Will Smith.

DG: I wish we-

DC: I wonder if he's written a book. I have to look. I don't think he's written a book, but I've been watching a lot of his, if you're not on his IG, get on it.

DG: Yeah.

DC: Yeah, his Instagram game is hot. His YouTube game is hot and he does-

DG: Wow. I didn't see that coming.

DC: So, Will Smith, kid from Philly became a rapper. Right? Improbable rapper. If you ever listened to some of his stuff with jazzy Jeff, back in the day. And I did see Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince in concert.

DG: Will Smith never crosstalk curse in his raps.

DC: Yeah, exactly. He was clean. He was clean, And I did see him in concert with run DMC, Beastie, boys, EPMD and Stetsasonic.

DG: But you get mad if I say you're old.

DC: That's true. And so, I saw them. He became a rapper, then he had a pretty famous TV show and we use a lot of his GIPHYs to this day. So if you check your GIPHYs, the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

DG: Bonus points if you leave a six star review and shout out the intro for Fresh Prince.

DC: The Fresh Prince, oh, big shout out if you do that.

DG: Big shout out.

DC: And then, he's become, as we know, super famous actor.

DG: Super famous.

DC: And he continues to grow and learn. And if you watch his YouTube stuff and the stuff that he talks about, and how he's been able to be both funny as a comedic actor and be able to continue to grow throughout his career.

DG: This is why I love doing this podcast. What other podcasts in the world are you going to get Jeff Bezos, the founders of Home Depot, Sam Walton, Will Smith, Arnold Schwarzenegger, all in one.

DC: Seeking Wisdom, that's about it.

DG: All right. So, before we wrap up, I did this thing the other day. I don't know if you noticed it, but I'm trying to make this thing real and it's going to be real now. We're going to do a new segment Ask DC. It's going to be Ask DC.

DC: I'm nervous.

DG: You gotta tweet with the hashtag Ask DC, and tag me, because I'll gather them all. DC can just be out there in the atmosphere. And I've got a couple ones.

DC: What do you mean?

DG: Couple good questions for you.

DC: Already?

DG: Yeah. I'm looking at this LinkedIn post. 4, 100 views. We've got 20 questions. I'm not going to go through all of them. I'm not going to go through all of them.

DC: All right. I'm sitting back in my chair.

DG: One of them, Ryan Dice, the first question, just lean in really close take a deep breath and all at once, while exhaling ask him," Oh my God. Why do you smell so amazing?"

DC: Ryan Dice is the homie.

DG: No, that's okay, I'm all set with that. When is Hypergrowth coming to London? Sorry. DG.

DC: That's a good idea. 2019 we're coming to London.

DG: TBD TBD. Okay.

DC: What's that big theater?

DG: There's a big opera.

DC: Yeah. The opera house. I can't remember.

DG: If it's going to have 10,000, we're probably going to have to do it.

DC: No, it only fits 4, 000. So you lucked out.

DG: Okay. This one-

DC: London, 4,000 people, 2019.

DG: Okay, this one-

DC: Quick, quick, quick, he's moving. Come on, his eyes are shifting.

DG: London, what? 2019?

DC: 2019.

DG: Ship it.

DC: Ship it.

DG: All right, Kristen. Shout out, Kristen. This is a good one. What's the biggest mistake you've made since starting Drift, and how did you correct it? Pretty good.

DC: What's the biggest mistake. The biggest mistakes are always people mistakes. So I don't know.

DG: People.

DC: Yeah. I don't know how to go into it. Let's see. I don't know. They're not huge catastrophic mistakes because-

DG: People always ask this they want to-

DC: They want some dirt, they want dirt.

DG: There's no dirt though.

DC: They're not big, and I think they're not big because we have this constant mentality, this growth mentality of looking for mistakes, looking for mistakes. And speaking of looking for mistakes, I showed DG some texts I got from our friend, Patrick Campbell today.

DG: Patrick.

DC: He's always looking for mistakes.

DG: Patrick, you could just send me that. Why's he always got to send it to you?

DC: On blast all the time, and I like that. So I welcome that kind of criticism. And I think we make mistakes every day. And so we correct them pretty quickly. So we, luckily, knock on wood, haven't had any major mistakes.

DG: We correct them quickly. Cristolis, Nick Christolis with a comment on LinkedIn. What is the best-

DC: Nicky C?

DG: No. What is the best sales and customer onboarding process you've ever been through? And why? Come on, you're a product geek deep in your heart.

DC: The best sales and onboarding.

DG: I don't know. Come on Nick. Nick, you're better than that.

DC: You're better than that.

DG: Oh, this is a good one. This is a good one. This got a lot of likes.

DC: Best onboarding is always inaudible.

DG: I have some feedback and questions regarding his Hypergrowth book. Who should I send it to?

DC: Oh man. Who's that? Patrick Campbell.

DG: No, no, he wouldn't post that publicly. What advice would you give to a 12 year old kid about succeeding in life?

DC: Is this is my daughter?

DG: No, no, it's not CJ. It's Eddie Bellow, shout out Eddie Bellow.

DC: Eddie Bellow, 12 years old.

DG: What advice would you give? What advice would you give to CJ? What advice do you give her?

DC: I give her lots of advice. I don't know if she listens to any of it. It takes years.

DG: CJ, I'm with you. I'm with you girl. Don't worry.

DC: The advice that I give her is don't take it so seriously, because she's pretty hard charging.

DG: Yeah. Where did she get that from?

DC: I don't know. From her mother. So super hard charging. Don't take it so seriously zoom out a lot. You know, she thinks of a lot of business ideas at 12. Lots of them. And so, we listen to some podcasts around creating businesses.

DG: Nice, nice.

DC: And so she has a bunch of ideas and questions all the time. But the thing that we were talking about, actually in the car, last week is that no one ever zooms out to understand what is the, boring, but what's the total addressable market for this idea that you have. They get infatuated with what we said before, with the idea. And so in her case, we used horse treats because she has a horse treat, helpful horse treats on IG. A business where she actually sells it and she's on Etsy. So, 12 years old, strong. And I said," Let's take horse treats for an example. What is the total addressable market for selling horse treats." And so, if you were to zoom out, and most people don't do this in small business, and say," All right, maybe there's a hundred thousand people that I can reach." Or whatever the number is. Let's just use a hundred thousand. And if you're in the horse world a hundred thousand is a lot because it's not that big. Let's say there's a hundred thousand. And we say," Okay, if there's a hundred thousand, how many of them could I actually get to in any given month?" And we say, let's just use the rule of 10%. So 10% of them. Right. So we're now down to 10,000 of them, right? And so, if you sell them, is that right? Is my math right? I'm doing some DG math here.

DG: I'll have to have somebody, Will, I'll have Will check the numbers after [ crosstalk 00:17:06]

DC: And so then you reduce it down. Now how many of them can you sell a horse treat to? Let's say 10% again. And so now you're down again. And so how much do you sell a horse treat for? And you sell it for$ 30 and how much of that is profit? And now the profits like$ 5 of that right there, inaudible math. And then they say like," Well, the most I could ever make, if I could get to all those people and I could do that consistently every month is$ 500 a month." Right? And so I've talked to so many retail owners, my wife used to own retail businesses, and when I talked to them, they've never stopped to think about this thing. Because when you think about retail things, and this was another example I talked to her, it's like," Imagine that store on the corner where we live and there's not many people. How many people do you think walk by here a day?" And she said," I don't know, maybe 100." Which I think is generous." So 100. How many of them could you get in your store?"," 10%." Okay." Now 10, what are you selling in there? Bubblegum? Whatever you sell, even if it costs$ 60 and your profit is 10 bucks now how much have you made in a day? And you have to pay electricity and you have to pay this person." So no one ever does that. That's what I would say to a 12 year old, zoom. More information.

DG: Get more information. crosstalk That's also why you believe that the bigger markets it's okay if there's competition.

DC: Go after big markets.

DG: If the market is big.

DC: Don Valentine, the founder of Sequoia would always say his number one rule.

DG: Shout out Sequoia.

DC: Check out his YouTube video, it's amazing. When he talked at Stanford, he said," Big markets, look for big markets."

DG: Love it. Look for big markets. That's why people thought we were crazy going after marketing and sales." There's 7, 000 companies in there."

DC: Big markets.

DG: Okay, last question then we gotta wrap up. This is a good one. This is a good one. I've thought about this, but I've never said it out loud.

DC: Is it from you?

DG: No, it's not for me. It's from Taylor Angstrom, who does demand gen somewhere. Shout out Taylor. How did you learn so much about marketing? I don't know about that. How did you learn so much about marketing? How did you learn so much about marketing while also leading product and engineering? It's a good question. It's a great question.

DC: Respect. Dave doesn't think I know anything about marketing.

DG: No, come on. I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot.

DC: He's rolling his eyes.

DG: I know the answer to this one in my head, I think.

DC: Give it to me. Let's reverse it. Ask DG. What's the answer?

DG: I think the answer is because I don't think they're separate things. I think you have to understand. I think, for you, you want to fundamentally learn about people and why they make decisions.

DC: Yes, exactly.

DG: And then there's two things that split out of that. It's how to get product on their shelf, and then what the actual product is.

DC: That's exactly right.

DG: Okay.

DC: Wow. You nailed it.

DG: Because it's true.

DC: The nephew is learning.

DG: I don't think you get enough credit for that. You know who ran marketing at apple? Steve jobs, right?

DC: Steve Jobs.

DG: And so, I think it's the same thing. I don't think it always works in every company, but I think that is what your threat is.

DC: Closest to the customer wins.

DG: So, shout out.

DC: All right, shout it out. Okay, it's time to go, now. Don't forget.

DG: Ask DC, help me make that a regular segment. That was good. Ask DC, tweet at us with the hashtag Ask DC.

DC: Ask DC, okay. Don't forget to subscribe if you're a first time listener here.

DG: We have a website.

DC: Oh yeah. We have a website now.

DG: Oh, this is what we got to do. We gotta tell them drift. com/ seeking wisdom.

DC: Yep. One word.

DG: It's one word. It's real now, and go there, our little friendly bot Six, the bot is called Six Stars Only, is going to ask for your email address. Get on that email list because we're going to start sending you exclusive stuff only for subscribers of the podcasts.

DC: That's hot. All right, so you know what to do. You know what time it is.

DG: Yes.

DC: It's time to leave six star reviews only.

DG: Only, Okay?

DC: That's how we do it for new listeners here. Let me enlighten you. What we do here at Seeking Wisdom is we try to break Apple Podcasts. So you go to Apple Podcast app on your phone or on your desktop and you open it up, you search for Seeking Wisdom. You find it.

DG: Pretty easy.

DC: Pretty easy. And then you write a review and then you try to leave six stars. That may break the app.

DG: That's it.

DC: In case it doesn't break the app, leave five stars, then leave a six star rating in the description.

DG: Yep.

DC: And shout out at the young nephew and the team here and let us know what we could be doing better, and what you like.

DG: Please. Please. And by the way, DC and I just had a long walk talking about Hypergrowth.

DC: Yeah.

DG: It's getting real.

DC: Real.

DG: So if you're listening to this, please, hypergrowth. drift. com. We've had a ton of big Hypergrowth updates. We had announced Jocko. We announced Heidi Bullock, Ryan Dice, Joe Rally. Every single Monday we're changing the event marketing game. We are announcing a new speaker every single Monday from here until September 4th, which is when the event is. And if you use the Seeking Wisdom promo code, 199 bucks.

DC: Wow.

DG: It's free. It's basically free.

DC: Seeking Wisdom one word?

DG: Seeking Wisdom one word, go to hypergrowth. drift.com.

DC: If you have any sympathy for the young nephew.

DG: Please out of sympathy for me, go buy a ticket.

DC: For him, for Annie, for Leah, his wife.

DG: For my sanity.

DC: For his family.

DG: Please.

DC: Make sure you buy some tickets.

DG: Hashtag help DG have a stress free summer.

DC: That's it hashtag help DG. All right, see ya.

DG: inaudible


If you like this episode, we bet that you’ll love our blog content. blog.drift.com/#subscribe Subscribe to never miss a post & join the 20,000+ other pros committed to getting better every day. ----- We’re back and talking about the three books that DC got for everyone on the management team at Drift (and why). Plus the two people he’d want in the room right now outside of Jeff Bezos, Sam Walton, and the Home Depot founders. And the debut of a brand new SW segment: #AskDC. Hit us up with a question for the next #AskDC on Twitter by tweeting @dcancel and @davegerhardt Get something out of this episode? Leave a 6 star review on Apple Podcasts. If you're a fan of the show we would LOVE you to join us at HYPERGROWTH -- our annual conference at Drift. Tuesday 9/4 in Boston and Monday 9/24 in SF. You can get your tickets at hypergrowth.drift.com with the promo code SEEKINGWISDOM for just $199 -- and that is the lowest price on the Internet just for SW fans.